Making Shields Heavier

[~JingGM 0]

Now this is just something I want to see opinions about, not something that will necessarily be changed just because it's a GM suggesting the idea.

 

 

Now I used to always play as a mage and had no real idea of how it was as a warrior, but lately I've been playing my warrior a lot more. I notice that hey - it IS pretty hard to kill mages once they throw up a tower and m.shield, even without 100% shield that some dex mages have.

 

Many people have suggested removing or lowering the defense on DK sets, and I see their point of view, but it seems a bit drastic to me. As another idea, I offer this - raise the required Strength on shields.

 

My suggestion - raise the required Str of shields.

 

Tower - 100 Str

Kite - 74 Str

Lagi - 65 Str

Iron - 50 Str

Blonde - 40 Str

Targe - 25 Str

Scooterm - 20 Str (No change)

Leather - 10 Str (No change)

Wood - 8 Str (No change)

 

 

What would it do? Well for one, it would make Light% shields a lot more useful. Another thing, it would limit shields to Battlemages, PlateMages, and Warriors - People with low vit (Battle/Platemages) and (some of) the ones who Tank (Warriors).

 

It's a bit less drastic than removing DK sets, but still serves to help the ultimate goal - making mages less overpowered. Because yes, even though I still love my mage, I didn't really die very often on him while raiding, outside of sades/helds. And yes, I finally agree that they are a (little) over-powered.

 

 

Please give an explanation of your "I agree"/"Don't agree" answer, if you can. Always helps, either way.

 

Current Str requirements on shields can be seen in Blacksmith.

[FedeD 0]

i agree with u, i can't even do EKs in sade (when DMGs are raised), n wearing rings and necks, i agree with u that mages r a bit overpowered, the update would be nice,

cuz tower shield +m.shied= "Absolute physycal Protection".

 

Dunno what other peps will think 'bour this but i AGREE.

[GeniuS 0]

As far as I have seen shields helps mages alot because they dont get stunned so much. (Also the damage reduce, but I think the stun is more important). That why I dont know if this is right way to solve the problem. It would be a problem if 3wars critting one mage causes a paralyze-like effect. Yes, the idea is definitely worth a try! Not a big change in server files, so we could test it for few weeks/ a month and see what happens! STR Reqs of Muta seems good.

[Eldon 0]

Bit sad that the ultimate mage item Merien shield becomes useless if this is put in place. It becomes a warrior tanking weapon no longer really that applicable to pvp.

 

Shield casting is a good skill, mages that do it well do better. I'd rather have no DK than a removal of shield.

[Exec 0]

if they remove shield most mages would become vit mages maybe, and think this, if they put it to 100 str, besides being able to use tower ud be able to use plate also, and that would be a lot of pa... i agree with this idea, a dex mage towring m shielding is practically unkillable even for 3 wars

[Moha 0]

pfft

the thing is this is supposed to be mass player fight

witho no tower in mass fights mages are almsot useless

 

 

just a reminder..

on the kblade event

 

2 wars vs 1 war 1 mage

 

imo players were equally skilled

but the wars beat them even when 1 of them dc more than once..

whys that?

 

yeah a right set up war is HARDER to kill than ANY mage

its like asking pfm to ask for 100+ int if u ask me

 

 

[Exec 0]

imo solution would be banning m shields from game also, or making it require 150+ both int and str, so that only weird chars can wear em =p

[~JingGM 0]

pfft

the thing is this is supposed to be mass player fight

witho no tower in mass fights mages are almsot useless

 

And with them, they can survive 8 wars critting them. I AM talking about mass players fighting mages - and the mages running away, laughing because a tower solves all their problems.

 

As for Merien Shield, then leave it at 40 str, but lower the normal defense on it accordingly.

 

Towers add 35 defense - higher than any neck you can craft, and the same as the newly raised DF of the "RARE" Stone Golem Necklace. Yes, I think it needs a change.

[Bobcat 0]

I agree 100%. Mages are unkillable in almost any situation and it takes naked pvp for any war to even have a chance. This is a great idea and we finally might be able to see some wars on the top eks for once :rolleyes:

[Eldon 0]

I died to 4 warriors the other day with merien shield, DK, mshield wand on, from full hp. I was stunned.

 

Just because they were using Dk swords and one was a hero and I was silly enough to amp myself (causing myself to stop long enough for them to get coordinated crits off - and yes I shield casted).

 

To be honest, I don't think 90% of warriors work together enough or do enough to ensure they get eks.

 

Many don't para even when a mage is out of pfm (and don't time), none coordinate with other warriors to say, box a mage and attack simultaneously from invis, and very few save their crits for one mage.

 

As Maynard pointed out 1v1 theres many warriors I can't kill, I couldnt even kill some warriors with 3 mages if I tried (and we have before), and that was even when we landed PFA's.

 

[Emke 0]

well.. im playing on mage.. and if its happens.. ill do stats like 25 str, and rest points will go to vitality... Think is not big difference.. mabe onle on para it works more painful.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Emke

[Ashley 0]

Mages are rigged here, how is it possible for any mage to kill a war, and not viceversa? Just because of this absurd idea of somebody " this is a mass player vs player game" who is getting fh with mage and then going to change stats to war cuz he/she cant make a single ek playing pure war stats. This game was done for mass player vs player as for 1v1 (war vs war) and (mage vs mage) (war vs mage) but this last option is impossible here at nemesis cuz we already have msshield drops faster than any other item in game, a mage with 100% shield or without it can stand almost a hole box of wars critting, and the last thing ever is from 15 seconds paralize killing a mage with 20+ red pots whos using dk set+ msshield+ and tower shield 100%. But is so easy for that mage to pfa and blizz 35 blue pots on war until he dies in matter of seconds and if you add 8+ mages blizzing a war with dk set or any other set but HIGH MA/MR that player will die unless he pulls. Dk+15 wand is really a pain on any wars back, dk+15+ rogm or roam hits very hard. I keep blaming this overpower thing of mages cuz paralize only last 15 seconds and its too short period of time to make a warrior worth getting 700 eks at least in the 1/2 or 1/4 period of time a mage does it. It looks like that for every pure war that got fh theres like 8-10 mages that got it, or these guys change stats after getting 700 eks and this proves warriors are worthless until you reach fh <_< . So i agree with Jin[GM] for more str shields requierements or lowering def on dk for mages cuz it seems that with rod+dm5+ bbh+4 killing a mage is not an option unless you are with a very big group of ppl. Sorry i wrote too many :wacko:

[Iowa 0]

Good *censored* idea. And lower pa on dk set. And this server will almost be balanced.

[Synz 0]

pfft

the thing is this is supposed to be mass player fight

witho no tower in mass fights mages are almsot useless

 

 

just a reminder..

on the kblade event

 

2 wars vs 1 war 1 mage

 

imo players were equally skilled

but the wars beat them even when 1 of them dc more than once..

whys that?

 

yeah a right set up war is HARDER to kill than ANY mage

its like asking pfm to ask for 100+ int if u ask me

A mage in an enclosed area against two warriors with pre-determined rules is a poor example to bring up. The enclosed area also has no obstacles. (unless it did, and then I apologize because I did not play at the time that event happened)

 

Comparing protection spells to shields/mshield wands is also foolhardy as there is a time-limit to the spells and not the shield/mshield. You can keep time as to when the spells run out.

 

Also, to compensate for Eldon's concerns, the merien shield could be kept at the current strength requirement of 40. This would make it a very valuable item, even more so than it already is.

[Krede 0]

That's some GOOD thinking :P But what about Merien Shield? Imo it should stay at 40 str cus afterall it is a rare :P

[FedeD 0]

Mages are rigged here, how is it possible for any mage to kill a war, and not viceversa? Just because of this absurd idea of somebody " this is a mass player vs player game" who is getting fh with mage and then going to change stats to war cuz he/she cant make a single ek playing pure war stats. This game was done for mass player vs player as for 1v1 (war vs war) and (mage vs mage) (war vs mage) but this last option is impossible here at nemesis cuz we already have msshield drops faster than any other item in game, a mage with 100% shield or without it can stand almost a hole box of wars critting, and the last thing ever is from 15 seconds paralize killing a mage with 20+ red pots whos using dk set+ msshield+ and tower shield 100%. But is so easy for that mage to pfa and blizz 35 blue pots on war until he dies in matter of seconds and if you add 8+ mages blizzing a war with dk set or any other set but HIGH MA/MR that player will die unless he pulls. Dk+15 wand is really a pain on any wars back, dk+15+ rogm or roam hits very hard. I keep blaming this overpower thing of mages cuz paralize only last 15 seconds and its too short period of time to make a warrior worth getting 700 eks at least in the 1/2 or 1/4 period of time a mage does it. It looks like that for every pure war that got fh theres like 8-10 mages that got it, or these guys change stats after getting 700 eks and this proves warriors are worthless until you reach fh <_< . So i agree with Jin[GM] for more str shields requierements or lowering def on dk for mages cuz it seems that with rod+dm5+ bbh+4 killing a mage is not an option unless you are with a very big group of ppl. Sorry i wrote too many :wacko:

 

Agree with u on EVERY of your points.

[~JingGM 0]

The enclosed area also has no obstacles. (unless it did, and then I apologize because I did not play at the time that event happened)

 

It didn't.

 

I died to 4 warriors the other day with merien shield, DK, mshield wand on, from full hp. I was stunned.

 

Just because they were using Dk swords and one was a hero and I was silly enough to amp myself (causing myself to stop long enough for them to get coordinated crits off - and yes I shield casted).

 

To be honest, I don't think 90% of warriors work together enough or do enough to ensure they get eks.

 

Many don't para even when a mage is out of pfm (and don't time), none coordinate with other warriors to say, box a mage and attack simultaneously from invis, and very few save their crits for one mage.

 

As Maynard pointed out 1v1 theres many warriors I can't kill, I couldnt even kill some warriors with 3 mages if I tried (and we have before), and that was even when we landed PFA's.

 

Very good points but at the same time, do we have to have 4 wars dumping crits into 1 mage just to down them?

 

And honestly - I agree that the warriors don't always work together very well, but there doesn't seem to be anyone helping them, either. I try to give times every single time I get them - yet not everyone responds.

 

As for the unkillable wars - that's with sets, items you have to find/trade for, am I right? With a mage, it's hit 180, maybe train shield to 100, and grab a tower shield from BS and you're now very hard to kill as long as you time your own AMPs.

[Ashley 0]

Jing is right. A warrior whos just got 180 is as naked as a new born baby. Until this war doesnt get a decent mr/ma set he will be same easy ek and this takes a lot of time do .

[Eldon 0]

I've seen warriors getting chased by 8 mages + other warriors turn around a pop a mage or a newb down with 5 crits because that mage was trying to kill them, and nobody could stop them.

 

No mage raiding against those odds can do that solo because of spell interrupts.

 

Shield casting is a really good skill that not all players can do, it is tricky and it rewards those who have become good enough at playing a mage so they can do it.

 

Anyway, I've kind of established my viewpoint on the matter. You know the last time I got para'd by a warrior.... neither do I. Just because they can't play doesn't mean I necessarily want to be a free ek for them.

 

Edit: For example, and a little off-topic, I didn't see you and Muta timing at all on your last raid.

[Eldon 0]

Oh an update, Vampyr when you see this can you comment on it, I'm interested in what you think (honestly).

[Vampyr 0]

I am honestly undecided on it.

 

I am a big advocate of the "this is a MMO, you arent supposed to kill people 1 on 1" stance. However I consider myself one of the harder hitting people in the server with large hit prob, yet I have a hard time getting through 100% shield and as a majorly decked out character you would assume 1 para against a fresh lvl 180 with only DK and Tower shield I would be shouting EK+1. You would be surprised how often they get away to only laugh and recall, and look I am not looking for easy eks - I dont need them but when a fresh 180 can survive a para and 18 crits from me or any warrior who is quite decked out - something is wrong.

 

I have seen quite a lot of mages happily equip shield and tank crits from up to 4 warriors and dance away. Not only when para'ed but when being spammed with crits (a really shit technique in fairness and should never get you an ek) a mage can go from being in considerable pain to being quite happy being hit for -10's with a sheild.

 

I think the problem is that there is a MASSIVE difference between both classes as soon as they hit 180. A mage will always outshine the warrior and warriors only get good when they get a MR/MA set.

 

Put it this way... brand new 180 mage with 100% sheild = 180 warrior with an MA set - in a survivability sense.

 

In official servers mages were designed to have an advantage at higher level in PVP because it took them considerably more time and effort to level them. On a private server where max lvl is achieved in 4 hours, this takes away the warrior advantage.

 

Warriors NEED to be given an advantage - some have suggested that the advantage is hunting but lets face it, mages can hunt whatever warriors can nowadays.

 

I think if you take away tower shields, mages will suffer as badly as warriors do now. Mages are overpowered, you cant deny it - but I dont think this is the answer.

Perhaps an overhaul to the HP formula? Mages with 50 dex have what...110 vit or thereabouts with around 630 hp. A BBH warrior with 25 mag will have about 113 vit and around 700 hp. I think that is wrong. Mages...NEVER in ANY game have ever had such a close amount of health and HP regen. Perhaps we need to look at having STR play a larger role in the amount of HP we have. The only trouble with this is, if you change the STR contribution to HP - you need to then balance how much STR so that Flame/GiS users still have a LARGE HP advantage over BBH users.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Vampyr

[Moha 0]

pfft

the thing is this is supposed to be mass player fight

witho no tower in mass fights mages are almsot useless

 

And with them, they can survive 8 wars critting them. I AM talking about mass players fighting mages - and the mages running away, laughing because a tower solves all their problems.

 

As for Merien Shield, then leave it at 40 str, but lower the normal defense on it accordingly.

 

Towers add 35 defense - higher than any neck you can craft, and the same as the newly raised DF of the "RARE" Stone Golem Necklace. Yes, I think it needs a change.

well

i will dare u to pick 10 mages and come kill me ...

i will use a war

 

 

Mages are rigged here, how is it possible for any mage to kill a war, and not viceversa? Just because of this absurd idea of somebody " this is a mass player vs player game" who is getting fh with mage and then going to change stats to war cuz he/she cant make a single ek playing pure war stats. This game was done for mass player vs player as for 1v1 (war vs war) and (mage vs mage) (war vs mage) but this last option is impossible here at nemesis cuz we already have msshield drops faster than any other item in game, a mage with 100% shield or without it can stand almost a hole box of wars critting, and the last thing ever is from 15 seconds paralize killing a mage with 20+ red pots whos using dk set+ msshield+ and tower shield 100%. But is so easy for that mage to pfa and blizz 35 blue pots on war until he dies in matter of seconds and if you add 8+ mages blizzing a war with dk set or any other set but HIGH MA/MR that player will die unless he pulls. Dk+15 wand is really a pain on any wars back, dk+15+ rogm or roam hits very hard. I keep blaming this overpower thing of mages cuz paralize only last 15 seconds and its too short period of time to make a warrior worth getting 700 eks at least in the 1/2 or 1/4 period of time a mage does it. It looks like that for every pure war that got fh theres like 8-10 mages that got it, or these guys change stats after getting 700 eks and this proves warriors are worthless until you reach fh <_< . So i agree with Jin[GM] for more str shields requierements or lowering def on dk for mages cuz it seems that with rod+dm5+ bbh+4 killing a mage is not an option unless you are with a very big group of ppl. Sorry i wrote too many :wacko:

i will show you vice versa

fight me 1v1 or same number fight

i will use a warrior and own you without a doubt

 

lets see if what your saying is true

 

 

and i will tell you this

its alot easier to kill me on my mage that on my war

 

 

[Vampyr 0]

Maynard, your one person, as opposed to the 120 odd that we see on the server everyday. Sure you may be an exception. You are also one of, if not the richest player on the server, hardly a good example.

[Zucchini 0]

Lmao... this dude just keeps going on with these useless comments, doesnt he? Its clear that you have access to items that 99% of the other warriors dont have (im talking about the argenlandia guild items). And as far as i can see, this topic and loads of other topics that have the same theme are about the server generally, not about how Moha can beat everyone with the items. If everything would be done as you pleased, i guess there would be no need of new players, since the power of mages and warriors would be based on the items you and your friends have.

 

I like the idea which Vampyr posted, and i like the idea which Jing posted. I mean both of the ideas could work, im just wondering which would be easier to change, if its up to that?

Edited January 10, 2010 by Zucchini

[Vampyr 0]

Well the HP formula was edited for Nemesis 2 to decrease the maximum HP. I'm sure they could do it. Its just a matter of finding a good balance and still maintaining the HP and regen advantage lower str characters have.

 

Perhaps instead of having a system where each strength point contributes to HP have a system of bonus's. At 100 str theres a bonus, 130 str a bonus, 160 str a bonus, 180 str a bonus 200 str a bonus towards vit.

 

I think taking away tower shields will be very critical to mages.

 

I think it would be better to change warriors for the better, than to change mages for the worse if you get my drift.