Discussion: Mage Vs War Pvp - Dk Set & Strip

[~WhiteFang 0]

I'd like to have an open discussion related to mage vs war pvping.

Especially I like feedback, comments and suggestions towards improvements of the current DK set, aswell as the shield & hammer strip rates.

 

Current Facts:

- DK Chain: 6k end

- DK Hat: 2,5k end

- DK Robe: 5,5k end

- DK legs: 5k end

- DK berk: 3k end

- DK Plate: 7,5k end

- DK Helm: 4k end

 

Strip Rates:

- Hammer: 25%

- BH: 33%

- BBH: 50%

- GBH: 62%

 

- Axe: 16%

- War Axe: 20%

- Baxe: 25%

- K-axe: 33%

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

To make a better balance in mage vs war, I prefer changing the endurances of mage DK items rather then changing the strip rates.

If it comes to axe strip rate vs shield, perhaps a decrement of strip rate should be applied.

 

My suggestion towards DK for mages:

 

- DK Chain: 8k end (+2k end)

- DK Hat: 2,5k end (+0 end)

- DK Robe: 7k end (+2,5k end)

- DK legs: 6k end (+1k end)

- DK berk: 4k end (+1k end)

 

- DK Plate: 7,5k end (+0 end)

- DK Helm: 4k end (+0 end)

 

 

Strip Rates:

 

- Axe: 12%

- War Axe: 16%

- Baxe: 20%

- K-axe: 25%

 

Feel free to comment on my suggestion, if you comment, make a positive suggestion of how it would be better. don't go like "it sux" or "it's bad", that doesn't help us balancing it properly to even out the pvp.

 

Also keep this golden rule in mind:

We want to keep pvp matches, war vs war or mage vs war or mage vs mage around the time limit of 45~60 minutes. a 2 hour pvp match is too long, especially for war vs war.

 

Side Note: Endu for mage or war legs is equal, if a diff end must be applied, then mage legs should have a mage requirement.

[Juno_NH 0]

armor damage done by hammers should be reduced a little.

 

i was fighting a bh war and she broke almost all my armors including DK set just with a bh in under 30 minutes.

 

atleast DK lasted a while. but i went thru 2 other sets aswell. they broke within a few minutes each. thats how powerful hammer armor damage is.

 

i'm high vit/dex warrior, she wasn't even landing hits on me that often, but still all my armors broke.

[DamaBlanca 0]

White , take a few players and open server test . Make him pvp .

 

my sugg:

 

Make armor breake brooke shields too

 

Need Dk tower only for endu like 2k same as bs but with a few build allowed like 180 + mag or 200 int

 

change the way of active items , not 1 person for 20 min 1 time for 20 min all this gona make the fight more interesting

 

i dont play a long time , i learning but need the real old players sugges.

 

Thx .

 

Rodrigo.

[gorefest 0]

White. I don't really get why decrease shield stripping from axes. If you play as war, go pick a mage wearing a tower shield (or lagi, or kitty once they all have 800 endu base) in a fight an see how long takes untill it start to strip. I have already played long fights been mage, using f2 m. wand f3 tower and, in the end of it, even with all wars hitting me constantly with axes, the endurance dropped to only 650+, which is ridiculous high. We need to have in mind that axes (except for kloness axe) have low dmg and low range. So dropping even more the axe strip rate would kill the pvp action or simply kill the use for axes.

I mean, if a mage comes with something like targe or wood shield, of course it will strip (it has low dr and low endurance). But, like I said, do the same test with a tower shield and see what happens. Mages wearing tower/lagi/kitty shields with high pa are almost in godly mode now a days. Have you ever killed one of those? Good, but they had, for 100% sure, died with shield in hands, without had it stripped anytime.

 

For hammers strip rate, they are good as they are right now. And the changes that you apoint for DK armors seens to be a good choice (at least for berk and legs) once they are the first parts to get stripped in a fight. But, making chainmail more endure than a platemail isnt kinda too much? Maybe only +1k for chain and about 0.5k (500) for berk and legs would fit it perfectly. That way dk parts would have sort of a balance between'en.

 

Cheerz.

 

PS: thx for the effort into making improvments to the server white!

[gorefest 0]

just fast i will name major struggles that are for mages. i dont play mage but i kill them alot and these are easiest ways to kill them.

 

there are many active SB in game. if 2 sb show up (which happens alot) no mage can do anything but run and need invi from other players. usually tho this means death for the mage when someone is bumping/blocking.

 

stun rate seems high among all weapons. i dont know what affects this so i can't comment on how to fix. 1 solution is to play naked. with no PA you will never stun - always fly. thought this sound stupid its actually good tactic for getting away if you can sacrifice some hp.

 

many mages now resort to just spamming MIM everywhere. this isn't fun for gameplay. most warriors won't fight with mim on so will end the fight.

 

many activations in game. X is actually not so much worry. Ice is main problem for mage. the frozen mage is twice as easy to stun and bump to death.

 

i have feelings that the real solution is better connection. stun is mainly caused by glance hit (not full hit) for register of hit causing dmg, at lower rate because is hitting a moving target (the target is no longer in the space you hit). and bump is obviously because you try to move into spot but the server say that spot is taken.

 

maybe i not highlight every issue here, but some of the main ones for sure.

 

my opinion? if mages hate sb/ice so much, they should trade some of their items to take them away from warriors. server never trying been fruity, but how to stop people trying to get nice items when they want them?

+1

to be honest, been a long time since I don't get a mage killed on my war for making the armor or shield stripp, aways happens on stun action.

Edited February 13, 2012 by gorefest

[Svafnir 0]

I've been playing as mage for 2 months now and I dont find shield strip really THAT bad. If you go only with a pa targe/wood or 500 endu shield, then excuse me, you are an idiot. Those shield are not meant to last long in a fight. They last 3-4 lizes if you have 2 or 3 wars with axes before they strip. I die in a million ways, but I never died because my tower stripped.

 

About DK endu, wells it might be a bit low, but a slight increase should do. 10k was way too much.

 

About SBs, I think the problem isn't the stun or long range themselves, but the drop rate of this weapon. There are 19 sb according to webpage. Out of which 15 are active? I dont know, but thats a big number for such a weapon. How come worst weapons such as DE/LB are more unique than such a powerfull weapon.

There should be 2-3.. 4 of these as much.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Svafnir

[lugiore 0]

hi all,

i think strip rate should be lowered

being a 156 str hammer war, ive noticed that the strip rate for bbh seems a little too high.

a bh has 8% more then hammer but a bbh has 17% more then bh, i think this is too high so should be redused to 40%-45.

i think bbh strip rate is far too high for the extra str needed to use the weapon,

or the strip rate of 156 hammers should be raised to to appox 30% or so and bh to 35% and bbh lowered 40-45

or keeping hammer at 25% make bh 30% and bbh 35 - 40%.

 

seems kinda op [to me] having bbh strip rate so high.

 

but, i guess a lowering of the strip rate might lead to longer pvp in regards to war vs war.

 

my thoughts

lugiore

[Moha 0]

About mage vs war pvp,

I think armor break should TAKE (3x or more the endurance on chest and head)

2x the endurance on LEGS

1.5 endurance on berk

[foefoe 0]

Stun rate is the problem.... pretty obvious. Dont know what to suggest to fix it, but it seems that the stun rate has been raised in the last 1-6 months (haven't been here these months.) Server is sluggish and filled with delay/bumps everyday. Adding stun rate to this has just ruined mageplay. Changing dk endurances isnt' gonna make or break anything. people getting clicked down cuz they have no chance to move is the issue.

 

BTW, is the activation changed to 20 min per item yet? that would be a bigger issue than anything posted so far.

[TheGambler 0]

I've been playing as mage for 2 months now and I dont find shield strip really THAT bad. If you go only with a pa targe/wood or 500 endu shield, then excuse me, you are an idiot. Those shield are not meant to last long in a fight. They last 3-4 lizes if you have 2 or 3 wars with axes before they strip. I die in a million ways, but I never died because my tower stripped.

 

About DK endu, wells it might be a bit low, but a slight increase should do. 10k was way too much.

 

About SBs, I think the problem isn't the stun or long range themselves, but the drop rate of this weapon. There are 19 sb according to webpage. Out of which 15 are active? I dont know, but thats a big number for such a weapon. How come worst weapons such as DE/LB are more unique than such a powerfull weapon.

There should be 2-3.. 4 of these as much.

 

pa woods are the best... especially when wars dont switch weapons... when they finally switch it comes off and they don't notice.. so funny

 

100% agreed with you on the SB bit though. I thought there were 20, but yeah, most of them ARE active. I think part of the issue is due to the recent latency/coding fix though. It's a lot easier to be stunned by monsters, so it makes sense that it's easier to get stunned by players, but I find it's more apparent with monsters. If you try escaping from 2 or more beetles in a sade with a mage, good luck to you. The way I figure, as connections improve, a lot more glance hits connect, creating stun. With the range/number of SBs, it's difficult to use a mage in that kind of environment unless you keep them constantly frozen or throw out a MIM to keep them running around. If the stun could be lowered without reverting back to more clunky code, that'd be best, I guess. Mages could cast through anything in that old environment.

[Svafnir 0]

I've been playing as mage for 2 months now and I dont find shield strip really THAT bad. If you go only with a pa targe/wood or 500 endu shield, then excuse me, you are an idiot. Those shield are not meant to last long in a fight. They last 3-4 lizes if you have 2 or 3 wars with axes before they strip. I die in a million ways, but I never died because my tower stripped.

 

About DK endu, wells it might be a bit low, but a slight increase should do. 10k was way too much.

 

About SBs, I think the problem isn't the stun or long range themselves, but the drop rate of this weapon. There are 19 sb according to webpage. Out of which 15 are active? I dont know, but thats a big number for such a weapon. How come worst weapons such as DE/LB are more unique than such a powerfull weapon.

There should be 2-3.. 4 of these as much.

 

pa woods are the best... especially when wars dont switch weapons... when they finally switch it comes off and they don't notice.. so funny

 

100% agreed with you on the SB bit though. I thought there were 20, but yeah, most of them ARE active. I think part of the issue is due to the recent latency/coding fix though. It's a lot easier to be stunned by monsters, so it makes sense that it's easier to get stunned by players, but I find it's more apparent with monsters. If you try escaping from 2 or more beetles in a sade with a mage, good luck to you. The way I figure, as connections improve, a lot more glance hits connect, creating stun. With the range/number of SBs, it's difficult to use a mage in that kind of environment unless you keep them constantly frozen or throw out a MIM to keep them running around. If the stun could be lowered without reverting back to more clunky code, that'd be best, I guess. Mages could cast through anything in that old environment.

 

But because wars are dumb enough haha, woods/targes shouldn't last long..

 

About stun, yeah I noticed a slight increase in it, but I thought it was something about my shitty connection/delay. Makes sense what you're saying.

[Moha 0]

I think it might be bcoz of the "FPS " fix they did on the server,

[cor3a 0]

basically if we'r talking about a war vs mage pvp, any war without a good mr set isnt gona survive the pvp. berks and hoses break in no time and there arent alot of high % plate or helm around. i disagree with increasing ab's armor breaking rate.

people might be saying that bh/bbh strips the end fast.. but if u do not have a good mr set while doing a pvp against a mage, your ma set will be gone in no time. no need for ab after that soon... just mmm or meteor against those with ie/ip.

 

end should be added to dk chain.. but definitely not more than dk plate. if dk chain is to be 8k end, then a dk plate's end should be about 9k.

 

just my 2 cents worth.

[~WhiteFang 0]

end should be added to dk chain.. but definitely not more than dk plate. if dk chain is to be 8k end, then a dk plate's end should be about 9k.

 

I was thinking equally on that in the original design of the endurances.

I calculated them based on the Hero Set, Knight Set and normal armor pieces.

In all of those, the mage's armor has less endurance than war armors.

Perhaps a decrement in strip rates and stun rates should be done, since the FPS fix, there is nothing that boosts your speed in the game, causing stun to be more violent and deadly than ever before...

Perhaps the original HB has the same FPS boost issue (unsure though !) and therefore increased the stun rates, as people escape too easy due to the speed boost...

 

---

 

I'd like to hear more real rates and numbers as a suggestion rather than agree or disagree one or more values should be changed.

[Juno_NH 0]

spell armor break is at a good ratio with armor endurance at the moment.

 

hammer armor dmg is not at a good ratio with armor endurance.

 

if you change endurance then will affect 1 better and 1 worse, so not fixing situation.

 

solution in that regard should only be to adjust hammer modifier. 25/33/40 sounds right to me. gbh should be 50.

 

axes on shields works ok, but since shields are not exploited by every mage, and not every war carries an axe, then you can't tell honestly how to adjust since many people do not notice effects + have limited experience to comment. kaxe 66, baxe 50, war axe 33, rest axe 25 .

 

50 might seem high for baxe, but remember is 2 hand weapon with less damage than bh, no armor affect, and only 2 crit space.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Juno_NH

[gorefest 0]

I've been playing as mage for 2 months now and I dont find shield strip really THAT bad. If you go only with a pa targe/wood or 500 endu shield, then excuse me, you are an idiot. Those shield are not meant to last long in a fight. They last 3-4 lizes if you have 2 or 3 wars with axes before they strip. I die in a million ways, but I never died because my tower stripped.

Svafnir, you know what is sad? Wood/targe lasting for 3/4 paralises! Those shields are the first ones in the grade of shields. Try gear urself with hoses or berks (normal ones, not DK) and see how long it last in a fight, even agaisnt a 156str hammer! It wont last long. Shields are still overpowered, I do still beleive that axes should have strip rate bonus for the next update.

 

Axes need to be fixed:

If I could vote in something, that would be for 100% sure add shield strip rate over every axe. Make battle axes between 40%-50% shield strip rate (I would say 45%), and other axes in scale according to the number choosen for baxe. As well, for kloness axe I would recommend about same shield stripping rate than baxe. KA requeirs only a 1 speed more than baxe for full swing (182 str full swing), have a huge boost of damage in comparison with baxes (been probably the more harmful weapon in game, more than bbh+5, ancient bbh, or any other). Maybe (if baxe set into 45% strip rate) fix KA with 48%-52% shield strip rate, but something close to baxe's strip rate for the balance.

 

Possible changes:

Decrease bbh strip rate only for a little, maybe stack it in 45% insteed of the actual 50%. GBH I can't opine much, its a rare weapon and that should be discussed (its a rare weapon which doenst do much damage compared to others bh's, like ancient; differently than KA like discussed above, GBH should have for sure a boost of strip rate in comparison with the other hammers... maybe make it like 55% strip rate or keep it like it is right now).

 

Increase DK gear endurance ONLY for berk and hose (0.5k each) if that's really necessary, leave the other parts with same endurance as it is right now (helm/plate/chain/cap). Look that this opinion is taken under circunstance that hammer's strip rate are lowered.

Observation for those that want chain DK endu increased: Plate mail have 100str weight, full helm 85str. Chain mail its only 30str requirement. Of course that platemails and helms should last longer during fights, their's requeirements for use must be compensated in terms of defense, pa and endurance as well. Also, we have to keep in mind that mages have advantage over stats, in respect of: they have int necessary for AMP so 90% of the time they are using dk once they are fully protected by spell and can self-protect themselves from it, unlikelly wars; and they have more vitality than most of wars. A typical BBH war have about 90-100 vit, while mages can reach between 120 to fucI<ing ultrageous 160 vit (considering many builds possible, they could be dex-mid vit-blizz, vitter-blizz, low int-dexer-vitter). So, for a warrior, having his armor stripped out is critical, while for mages that's not as hard as it could be.

Edited February 15, 2012 by gorefest

[gorefest 0]

bump, waiting for new ideias or reply