+3 Weapons And Armors Safely?

[Ganksta 0]

i just dont see the benefit here.

 

you say to encourage more builds but in the end, all this will do would make more BBH wars,

no point of upgrading a BS or Manu item except for BBH, yes it would make certain items better

ie. Sharp Baxe and GiS, but at the same time you will be making the DK war weaker.

 

also theres already people who complain about breaking other players armor sets, imagine the

uproar when everyone starts to have ma+3 sets.

 

and finally im not sure but when upgrade a item with a xStone doesnt it add Hitting Prob also ?

(i could be completely wrong on this point i honestly dont know.)

 

Who says that all those MA sets are upgradeable? You can't upgrade strong items with merien stones. Their ma sets might all be "strong x%" you never know. It's not really hard to break any ma set, it's actually quite easy to do. The hard sets to break are MR.

Correst me if I'm wrong but could armor be light and have MA? I wouldn't know because I've never gotten any MA armor drops, but I wouldn't think that the armor would be strong just to have MA%.

 

 

Yes it can be any substat and have MA. My point was that they are probably -mostly- strong armors that can't be upgraded, and even after you upgrade those light/crit/mc armors to +3, some strong items will have more endurance anyway.

 

My only purpose in this topic is to suggest it to admins, as they strive to be as close to original hb as possible (hb korea). All of my suggestions have come directly from HB Korea (with valid sources).

 

Whether or not players like it isn't my concern honestly. I'm sure it's divided amongst the whole server, probably close to 50/50, but I don't think hb korea players would have it any other way.

 

Edit: I also must re-iterate that just because you won't lose the items while trying to +3 them, doesn't mean you can use 3x stones or 3m stones and have a +3. The chance to fail is still the same, and you will, more often than not, lose the stone in the process. It's still very risky to attempt +4 any higher and it's an insane chance to fail and lose everything.

 

 

[jin 0]

just make strong armors upgradeable coz most dropped item are strong.

so strong leather 56% +1 has decent endurance

[~WhiteFang 0]

the purpose of upgrading the other kind of armors is to make them stronger anyway.

 

so enabling the ability to upgrade strong armors is no option here.

[timma 0]

i just dont see the benefit here.

 

you say to encourage more builds but in the end, all this will do would make more BBH wars,

no point of upgrading a BS or Manu item except for BBH, yes it would make certain items better

ie. Sharp Baxe and GiS, but at the same time you will be making the DK war weaker.

 

also theres already people who complain about breaking other players armor sets, imagine the

uproar when everyone starts to have ma+3 sets.

 

and finally im not sure but when upgrade a item with a xStone doesnt it add Hitting Prob also ?

(i could be completely wrong on this point i honestly dont know.)

 

Who says that all those MA sets are upgradeable? You can't upgrade strong items with merien stones. Their ma sets might all be "strong x%" you never know. It's not really hard to break any ma set, it's actually quite easy to do. The hard sets to break are MR.

 

well for 1, ma and mr break at the same rate w/ AB or BBH it doesnt matter.

im just asking you to provide the upside to making this change, as i said before

just becuase one server does it, does not mean we have to do it here as well.

 

To the point you dont care what players think, just to let you know several players discuss

things like this w/ the admins so player opinions count.

 

Im just asking you to provide the positive side for this change, you might persuade me to change my mind about the topic, thats all.

[Ganksta 0]

i just dont see the benefit here.

 

you say to encourage more builds but in the end, all this will do would make more BBH wars,

no point of upgrading a BS or Manu item except for BBH, yes it would make certain items better

ie. Sharp Baxe and GiS, but at the same time you will be making the DK war weaker.

 

also theres already people who complain about breaking other players armor sets, imagine the

uproar when everyone starts to have ma+3 sets.

 

and finally im not sure but when upgrade a item with a xStone doesnt it add Hitting Prob also ?

(i could be completely wrong on this point i honestly dont know.)

 

Who says that all those MA sets are upgradeable? You can't upgrade strong items with merien stones. Their ma sets might all be "strong x%" you never know. It's not really hard to break any ma set, it's actually quite easy to do. The hard sets to break are MR.

 

well for 1, ma and mr break at the same rate w/ AB or BBH it doesnt matter.

im just asking you to provide the upside to making this change, as i said before

just becuase one server does it, does not mean we have to do it here as well.

 

To the point you dont care what players think, just to let you know several players discuss

things like this w/ the admins so player opinions count.

 

Im just asking you to provide the positive side for this change, you might persuade me to change my mind about the topic, thats all.

 

 

I already said the upside. Obviously you didn't even take the time to read my post before you went on a rant.

I don't care what players think about it, you're right on that.

 

It's sort of like voting for president of the united states. The People have the popular vote, while the Electoral College actually decides what happens.

 

Admins of nemesis are the Electoral College so to speak.

[timma 0]

well i just went and the etire topic again, and your stongest arguement is still that its in

hbKorea, and yes the admins have the final say, but they trust certain peoples opinions

they discuss such things with.

 

so again until i get a better arguement or reasoning that what you have put fourth here

my vote remains a no.

[Ganksta 0]

Well, I know the point of Nemesis is to be as close to original hb as possible.

 

Original HB = HB Korea, and hb korea has this implemented.

 

Maybe it's been discussed before, and maybe staff doesn't agree....BUT

 

I think it helps balance warriors with mages.

 

It also helps (slightly) against BBH stripping your armors so damned fast. Even at +1, a 14% strong item is about the same +endurance as a +1 armor.

So it's not a 100% chance to succeed +1, +2, +3..... But you cannot lose the item unless you fail on +4.

 

Once again if this has been posted before and shot down, I apologize :P

 

 

Edit: It took a little digging, but I found the actual update post on hbkorea that says they have +3 safe (it can fail but you won't lose the item).

 

http://64.233.187.132/translate_c?hl=en&am...LZQ9EYbxfq3uFbQ

 

This is the Google Translator link, translation is REALLY rough on this part, but I think you can interpret it correctly.

 

Bolded and underlined for the reading-impaired.

 

It helps warriors by allowing them to do (slightly) more damage. Not gamebreaking damage, but enough to help the balance.

 

It helps mages not get their sets completely ripped by bbh warriors in a few hits.

 

Both warriors and mages benefit from this.

[Hemp 0]

i just dont see the benefit here.

 

you say to encourage more builds but in the end, all this will do would make more BBH wars,

no point of upgrading a BS or Manu item except for BBH, yes it would make certain items better

ie. Sharp Baxe and GiS, but at the same time you will be making the DK war weaker.

 

also theres already people who complain about breaking other players armor sets, imagine the

uproar when everyone starts to have ma+3 sets.

 

and finally im not sure but when upgrade a item with a xStone doesnt it add Hitting Prob also ?

(i could be completely wrong on this point i honestly dont know.)

 

Who says that all those MA sets are upgradeable? You can't upgrade strong items with merien stones. Their ma sets might all be "strong x%" you never know. It's not really hard to break any ma set, it's actually quite easy to do. The hard sets to break are MR.

Correst me if I'm wrong but could armor be light and have MA? I wouldn't know because I've never gotten any MA armor drops, but I wouldn't think that the armor would be strong just to have MA%.

 

 

Yes it can be any substat and have MA. My point was that they are probably -mostly- strong armors that can't be upgraded, and even after you upgrade those light/crit/mc armors to +3, some strong items will have more endurance anyway.

 

My only purpose in this topic is to suggest it to admins, as they strive to be as close to original hb as possible (hb korea). All of my suggestions have come directly from HB Korea (with valid sources).

 

Whether or not players like it isn't my concern honestly. I'm sure it's divided amongst the whole server, probably close to 50/50, but I don't think hb korea players would have it any other way.

 

Edit: I also must re-iterate that just because you won't lose the items while trying to +3 them, doesn't mean you can use 3x stones or 3m stones and have a +3. The chance to fail is still the same, and you will, more often than not, lose the stone in the process. It's still very risky to attempt +4 any higher and it's an insane chance to fail and lose everything.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[~JingGM 0]

well for 1, ma and mr break at the same rate w/ AB or BBH it doesnt matter.

 

I don't think what timma says is true, but someone correct me if I'm wrong on that. As far as I know, you have to actually do damage to the person for Armor Break to affect their armor's endurance, but, like I said, I'm not sure on that. So, you can't "strip" someone in safe zone, or if they are AMPed/PFMed. If someone has a lot of MR, you're going to miss more often with AB than if they just have regular MA, and they won't strip as fast. No?

[~elguason 0]

You can strip or froze someone in safe zone.

You dont strip if you miss the AB i think.

[Ganksta 0]

well for 1, ma and mr break at the same rate w/ AB or BBH it doesnt matter.

 

I don't think what timma says is true, but someone correct me if I'm wrong on that. As far as I know, you have to actually do damage to the person for Armor Break to affect their armor's endurance, but, like I said, I'm not sure on that. So, you can't "strip" someone in safe zone, or if they are AMPed/PFMed. If someone has a lot of MR, you're going to miss more often with AB than if they just have regular MA, and they won't strip as fast. No?

 

 

Correct. If you miss the armor break or bbh swing or ESW, the armor breaking effect doesn't happen. You can strip people in safe zone though, same premise as draining their stamina. Although the safe strip only works with spells and not with weapons (you still have to "hit" them for it to break the armors, even though you don't actually do damage).

[Eldon 0]

It works like this:

 

You don't need to do damage persay, but you need to "hit".

 

Therefore, if someone is PFA in safe, you can break their set. If they are PFM in safe you cannot.

 

I.e. it is harder to break an MR set than an MA set, correct.

 

However, I still think it's hard too hard to break these sets already. Took two of us ABing/PFAing constantly about 10-15 minutes to break R8's sets, and that was with a constant rate of fire.

 

I'd hate to see those items +3.

[Ganksta 0]

10-15 mins is a short time in any real pvp scenario.

 

Who knows what R8's sets stats are, they could be strong 91% for all ya know. Strong items can't be +3 so don't make assumptions about people's sets being upgraded, or make posts about how "I won't be able to kill anyone".

 

This is not about making eks easier. If you want easy eks go to "hb banana" as White says :P

[Eldon 0]

Neither can ancient weapons, it doesn't add strength to your argument.

 

Ok, so HB Korea and HBUSA have done it. Yes.

 

Pros:

More people will upgrade, benefits both warriors and mages.

 

Cons: Stronger sets, more +5 weapons around etc (regardless of it being a low success rate it still takes two (quite hard) steps out of the equation).

 

It's just not needed.

[Ganksta 0]

Neither can ancient weapons, it doesn't add strength to your argument.

 

Ok, so HB Korea and HBUSA have done it. Yes.

 

Pros:

More people will upgrade, benefits both warriors and mages.

 

Cons: Stronger sets, more +5 weapons around etc (regardless of it being a low success rate it still takes two (quite hard) steps out of the equation).

 

It's just not needed.

 

 

You are missing the point of my post. The HB Nemesis staff has always made it clear that Nemesis will be as close to original HB as possible. Original HB = HB Korea.

 

If you want to go back to the days of level limit 130, no blizz, no amp, no ews, no hammers, no gis, no horns/wings then by all means, go make your own server.

 

+3 safely adds balance to helbreath.

 

Your pros and cons are basically saying the SAME THING, just using different words.

 

Most of the reasons I've seen against this feature, are people who already may own some +3 etc items that they don't want devalued (which they won't be massively devalued), or mages who are afraid that they won't just be able to plow the average warrior while taking minimal damage anymore. Or people who are "Omgz I wont be able to break their setz no more they have 45% extra endurance on a 300 endurance hauberk!!!1!1!1" (which by the way still only puts it at about 435ish endurance)

 

Hi Toxic, welcome to Helbreath Nemesis.

 

Warriors can have a variety of stats, but I'll give you three great stat set-ups to start out with:

 

#1 - This build is for killing Ogres, Cyclops, and Werewolves effectively

STR: 130 ; DEX: 200 ; VIT: 158 ; INT: 59 ; MAG: 50

 

#2 - This build is for killing Ice Golems effectively (This one can vary a lot)

STR: 130 ; DEX: 180; VIT: ??? ; INT: 112 ; MAG: ???

 

**More VIT for survivability in PVP and getting jumped, more MAG for casting Absolute Magic Protection a lot. Never have less than 50 MAG.

 

#3 - This build is for killing players and does a decent job at hunting

STR: 200 ; DEX: 180; VIT: 108 ; INT: 59 ; MAG: 50

 

 

 

All up to personal preference.

 

 

Warriors in general are quite item reliant to PVP.

 

Easiest ek build for a non-itemed warrior is number 3. It can also hunt most of the solo monsters pretty easily (e.g. WW/Cycs).

 

I believe this is relevant to this post.

[Eldon 0]

I'm quite aware of what the staff has said, and what HB Korea has done. Nevertheless, just because HB Korea has implemented a change does not mean it cannot be discussed here.

 

If you haven't noticed yet, HB Nemesis although similar, is not HB Korea.

 

Personally, I don't think this is a change that is needed or particularly helpful. It's just going to mean that all the people who currently have rare weapon +1, now make it rare weapon +3, and the same for sets, and the same for tower shields.

 

A lot more BBH+3 too.

 

I'm running in circles here arguing with you, I've taken your point of view on board and I still disagree. It's like saying tradition is always good because it's tradition. I'd like to think management's a little bit more proactive than that.

 

Personally, it's not the worst thing in the world if it happens, but I still think it's not needed.

 

What do others think?

 

Btw: Just a comment on motivations here, if this happens I'll have a sharp hp84 flam +3, a sharp gis with rep +3 a sharp hammer rep 2 +3, 3 almost full MP sets +3, and a few tower +3. There is big benefit to me for this happening. Nevertheless, I disagree with its implementation.

[Ganksta 0]

Do you disagree with the fact that you mainly play "mage" type characters, Eldon?

 

You say it's not needed, from the perspective of someone who is usually casting blizz.

 

By the way, things have been suggested in the past, and player views were different all over the board. The GMs are going to do what THEY want to do, regardless of what we think.

 

well, it sounds nice...

 

but...

 

"xelima rapier +3" ... "GBH +3" ... "Light plate mail +3" ...

 

they'll become common, which would be bad I think.

 

the idea is nice if it's about blacksmith items (bbh, tower shield, ...) but I think for rare items it would make it bad.

 

 

Just re-read this post. The whole idea of it isn't to make bbh's more overpowered than they already are, it's to bring the other weapons on par with the massively upgraded bbh's we see all over nemesis.

 

Basically if you don't use dk15 or bbh+x on nemesis atm, people consider you to be mildly retarded. The +3 without losing your item balances this out, as well as the imbalance of mage damage vs war damage atm.

 

 

A mage has two VERY easy items to obtain, that reduce warrior damage almost completely. Those being mshield and tower.

 

A warrior can obtain emmy ring, which is 20%ma, and pfm which is 50%ma from blizz.

 

Mages can still hit warriors for ~80-90 damage through pfm and emmy on directs, and ~200 damage with only emmy. All the while warriors are hitting less than 10 damage at a tower+mshielded mage.

 

+3 gives you those extra few secs/mins of your armor not stripping (considering it isn't already strong), and brings up warriors damage VERY SLIGHTLY. It's in no way game breaking, and I would volunteer to help test if needed.

[Eldon 0]

DK15 isn't a really good comparison to BBH+3, but I get your point. And yes, I mainly do play mages so am less affected by this (but still somewhat, I do have a few warriors).

 

However, there are some phenomenal MA sets on this server, and it's kind of painful that those are going to be much stronger. I don't expect easy eks but there are some near invincible warriors (well, unless you have odds of about 10 to 1).

 

I'm kinda keen to wait and see what happens. By the way, with the +1 on a weapon, does that add before or after zerk etc.

[Ganksta 0]

After zerk is when +dmg is added. It's apparent because normal swings I can hit 55 dmg (max i've seen) but on zerk swings my max has been 99. Theoretically it should be 110 if + is added before zerk calc, but it isn't. It's added after. (Same with crits)

 

The only MA piece that I've found hard to break as a mage, would be MA helm. They are hard as hell to break, but there aren't that many good ones in game. The rest is easy as pie to break, doesn't even take that many armor breaks.

[timma 0]

I think it helps balance warriors with mages.

 

It also helps (slightly) against BBH stripping your armors so damned fast. Even at +1, a 14% strong item is about the same +endurance as a +1 armor.

 

 

to the first point ballancing wars and mages, so mage armor doesnt strip as much (theres already quite abit of def on this server and as you pointed out tower shields and mshields yeah lets see you hit all mages running around w/ tower+3)

and lets not forget the ballance between a bbh war and a dkwar, you cant upgrade a dk item w/ stones and making it safe to +3 all you will do is increase the amount of +4 and 5 bbhs in the game.

 

respond all you want here or flame me, this is my last post on the topic and my mind hasnt changed.

no

[Ganksta 0]

I think it helps balance warriors with mages.

 

It also helps (slightly) against BBH stripping your armors so damned fast. Even at +1, a 14% strong item is about the same +endurance as a +1 armor.

 

 

to the first point ballancing wars and mages, so mage armor doesnt strip as much (theres already quite abit of def on this server and as you pointed out tower shields and mshields yeah lets see you hit all mages running around w/ tower+3)

and lets not forget the ballance between a bbh war and a dkwar, you cant upgrade a dk item w/ stones and making it safe to +3 all you will do is increase the amount of +4 and 5 bbhs in the game.

 

respond all you want here or flame me, this is my last post on the topic and my mind hasnt changed.

no

 

 

Your point of view is very one-sided. That is all.

[Svafnir 0]

Wouldn't like to see BBH+5 as a normal rare, i like BBH+3 as one..

Also imagine Sharp BH+3, Sharp Baxe+3, that would be insane man...

 

 

[Ganksta 0]

Wouldn't like to see BBH+5 as a normal rare, i like BBH+3 as one..

Also imagine Sharp BH+3, Sharp Baxe+3, that would be insane man...

 

What's insane is mages having such easy access to increasing their damage (for which warriors have no real easily available way to reduce, unlike mages) while warriors get the stiff.

[Eldon 0]

Well, IE/IP are certainly harder to get here (than say USA) - that is good. MA however is much easier to get. Warriors with MA are definitely a force to be reckoned with.

 

On USA they recently made mage rings work like warrior rings (same damage added) - just be glad that's not going to happen here rofl.

 

I'll put it this way, sofar yes I don't think anyone would risk many rare weapons to go above +1, especially not the better rared weapons (e.g. SBH). However, the more powerful a weapon is the less likely it is to be upgraded, and the less it needs to be upgraded also.

 

Every SBH Doesn't need to be +3 :P Every LB/Kloness blade doesn't need to be +3. I like the risk involved with doing it, risk + cost.

[Ganksta 0]

Well, IE/IP are certainly harder to get here (than say USA) - that is good. MA however is much easier to get. Warriors with MA are definitely a force to be reckoned with.

 

On USA they recently made mage rings work like warrior rings (same damage added) - just be glad that's not going to happen here rofl.

 

I'll put it this way, sofar yes I don't think anyone would risk many rare weapons to go above +1, especially not the better rared weapons (e.g. SBH). However, the more powerful a weapon is the less likely it is to be upgraded, and the less it needs to be upgraded also.

 

Every SBH Doesn't need to be +3 :P Every LB/Kloness blade doesn't need to be +3. I like the risk involved with doing it, risk + cost.

 

Compare the amount of warriors that have MA, to the amount of mages that have mshield and tower.

 

The risk involved in doing it? There is no risk, because no one is stupid enough to do it.

 

But you can upgrade a bbh to your hearts content, because if you lose that: "Oh hey Mr Blacksmith Guy, I'll have another please". Which is why this server is bbh or dk15 or make a mage if you don't like that.

 

Wouldn't like to see BBH+5 as a normal rare, i like BBH+3 as one..

Also imagine Sharp BH+3, Sharp Baxe+3, that would be insane man...

 

 

To add on Svafnir's post, sharp bh+3 or sharp baxe+3 doesn't make it insanely better. That's what I've been trying to tell you people. It's not like from +1-+3 you will start to hit criticals or even 100 dmg every crit, or even every few crits.