Invulenrability

[Moha 0]

I believe this new features needs to be changed.

 

I have never fully understood the whole purpose of this .

 

The main way to exploit it is that when you're Invulnerable you still have the ability to cast:

-Giving support when you're Invulnerable ,then when the time is running out , you can refresh it if you're near an entrance. Like Dungeon or IB fights. And continue supporting without even having a chance of being HIT.

-If you're being chased and you haven't gotten hit in the last 10 seconds and you change a map, you're saved.

 

We've lost some gameplay.

Example:

-You teleport to d2 , then go to the way to CF(enter the tp) to find it boxed. You can SAFELY recall without any problem.

-You get out of the shop after a long AFK period, shop is boxed. You can SAFELY recall without any problem.

-You use tp in town but find it boxed by summons (korean style). You can SAFELY recall without any problem.

 

Sometimes I've seen the counter giving me 14 seconds of invulnerability, how is the time calculated?

-Deactivating the invulnerability should be triggered by changing from peace to attack mode.

 

 

Can anyone enlighten me on what did we gain by this new feature, I already know what we have lost.

 

Regards,

Edited September 2, 2013 by Moha

[~WhiteFang 0]

I love to enlighten you and explain for the 12045873028210457120389102784012840128th time why we have this feature.

 

First of all, Invulnerability extends safe-zones. As in MANY areas (except apocalypse) we've taken AWAY the safe-zone areas.

The removal of those areas was made due to the reason people running to safe-zone and start shit-talk the entire map. And then the opposites summon on top and make the guy die, with the only purpose of stopping the shit-talking as they won't gain an EK from killing him anyway.

And we want to get rid of stupid shit-talkers, so one of the side-effects already is consuming MORE sp to talk in various chats. So only the minimum/required amount of chat is spoken and shit-talking is reduced. The other action against it was removing safe zones.

 

Now if we look at the core-existance of safe-zones, we know they're there to give the people time to load the map data and get ready for what's in the new map. Often safe-zones used to be located at points where you would spawn coming from another game server.

To ensure people don't get raped when they spawn in a map and didn't fully load yet, there must be some sort of protection. This protection is the Invulnerability. It gives slow and fast computers sufficient time to fully load all required data to start playing in the map.

 

On the other hand, making a box and wait for a player to spawn in it from another map, not always/yet fully-loaded and rape him in the ground required absolutely ZERO skill in helbreath. It only requires 2 people to make a box.

As we prefer to have a PvP action where SKILLS are required, we simply introduced this Invulnerability buff to occur on EVERY teleport, to make sure you can load your map and not get raped because you're still loading.

 

The reason why Invulnerability also protects against summons is simple, as I mentioned before, raping your enemy who's standing in a safe-zone doesn't gain you an EK. It has no other purpose than forcing him out of the map and stopping his shit-talking. As there are no more safe-zones around now, people can't stick to a border of a map in a safe-zone to shit-talk. So the ability to hit an enemy being in their "safe-zone" using summons becomes obsolete, so Invulnerability protects against it. Besides, how annoying is it to find a left-over dragon at the recall pad and DIE the moment you spawn...

 

The invulnerability buff has fixed times, 7 seconds on teleport and 15 on server change. That you see less time only means your loading time is variable and isn't always "instantly" as you would think. Time starts ticking the moment you're connected, but that doesn't mean your map is loaded and all required data is received to start playing.

 

The exploits you mention, only 1 could be a potentional issue, that's the first one.

The second one is your fault for not damaging him while he runs away... fly him a crit, a fire strike on his *censored* or a bow shot will get the 10-seconds counter reset... keeping him from getting the buff upon teleporting.

[Moha 0]

White, thank you for your response.

 

From my POV the surprise factor has always been a good part of HB.

 

-If you place a teleport point on the crusade , you can SAFELY teleport to enemys base and amp/zerk , para towers then just attack.

 

I still remember the sweet moment when you found out where an enemy is TP'ing and you will call your guild to camp on it. Trust me that is good stuff ....

 

 

Camping/boxing is not really all that is getting lost, but I would like to ask you. Is there any chance reconsidering the places where Invulnerability will work?

 

Example:

-IMHO it shouldn't work in IB , ever. Because you're already in the ML, what's safe about that?

-When you use sade TP

- When you get out of shop or wh.

 

Starting to cast a spell should get rid of the invulnerability.

 

I would like to add more examples but I'm stuck at work for the time being. I will continue this further @home

 

 

Regads

Edited September 2, 2013 by Moha

[Svafnir 0]

Basically, agree with everything Maynard said.

[Appetite 0]

White, thank you for your response.

 

From my POV the surprise factor has always been a good part of HB.

 

-If you place a teleport point on the crusade , you can SAFELY teleport to enemys base and amp/zerk , para towers then just attack.

 

I still remember the sweet moment when you found out where an enemy is TP'ing and you will call your guild to camp on it. Trust me that is good stuff ....

 

 

Camping/boxing is not really all that is getting lost, but I would like to ask you. Is there any chance reconsidering the places where Invulnerability will work?

 

Example:

-IMHO it shouldn't work in IB , ever. Because you're already in the ML, what's safe about that?

-When you use sade TP

- When you get out of shop or wh.

 

Starting to cast a spell should get rid of the invulnerability.

 

I would like to add more examples but I'm stuck at work for the time being. I will continue this further @home

 

 

Regads

only spell aloud to use while invulnerabilty mode should be Recall..not amp zerk invis etc which would stop the safe support

[213 0]

 

White, thank you for your response.

 

From my POV the surprise factor has always been a good part of HB.

 

-If you place a teleport point on the crusade , you can SAFELY teleport to enemys base and amp/zerk , para towers then just attack.

 

I still remember the sweet moment when you found out where an enemy is TP'ing and you will call your guild to camp on it. Trust me that is good stuff ....

 

 

Camping/boxing is not really all that is getting lost, but I would like to ask you. Is there any chance reconsidering the places where Invulnerability will work?

 

Example:

-IMHO it shouldn't work in IB , ever. Because you're already in the ML, what's safe about that?

-When you use sade TP

- When you get out of shop or wh.

 

Starting to cast a spell should get rid of the invulnerability.

 

I would like to add more examples but I'm stuck at work for the time being. I will continue this further @home

 

 

Regads

only spell aloud to use while invulnerabilty mode should be Recall..not amp zerk invis etc which would stop the safe support

 

I actually disagree. I think every spell except recall should be able to be used. The idea of the invunerable buff is to create safe zones without there actually being a set location. I think that if you have the invulnerable buffu should be able to cast anything except recall. At least if you run into a map and its boxed, you have 8 seconds to try and fly somebody out the box to escape, using reacll is just a lame chicken way out. Fighting for your life is much better.

[Moha 0]

I would like to ask the community to contribute on the following :

 

OLD VS NEW.

Old Classic HB. Safe-zone

PROS:

PVP wise, you have always a chance to stop someone from recalling(even if its a really low chance)

Old good surprise attack.

Classic HB raiding where you have different options like: Box shop /wh, box a tp with summons(korean style) , Box d2 , box ef/RH .

No safe Tp'ing to anywhere on ML on a crusade

Classic HB

Some other random scenarios ( just naming a few) :

-If you're being chased and you haven't gotten hit in the last 10 seconds and you change a map, you're saved.

-The sweet moment when you found out where an enemy is TP'ing on crusada and you will call your guild to camp on it.

-Classic ML TP boxing is rendered useless

CONS:

(fill in here)

Invulnerability

PROS:

Reduces shit talking (?)

CONS:

You have no way to stop someone from recalling/paraing/supporting, etc.

You can not get hit by anyone or anything

It can be easly abused , specially if you're low ping. Not being hit in 10 seconds would mean the same as survive.

Safe tping to any spot on crusade

Big change in gameplay . Arguably alot more was lost thant it was gained

Scenarios:

-If you place a teleport point on the crusade , you can SAFELY teleport to enemys base and amp/zerk , para towers then just attack.

-You teleport to d2 , then go to the way to CF(enter the tp) to find it boxed. You can SAFELY recall without any problem.

-You get out of the shop after a long AFK period, shop is boxed. You can SAFELY recall without any problem.

-You use tp in town but find it boxed by summons (korean style). You can SAFELY recall without any problem.

-Your guildmaster selected a TP full of enemy players ( and buildings). You should be dead, but... You can SAFELY recall without any problem.

I strongly believe invulnerability has great potential but I do not seem to completly grasp how the 15/7 seconds were selected. Making any teleport give you Invu is a big NO-NO IMO

If reverting to normal safe-zones is not an option, I would suggest the following changes done to Invu:

-Making field damage hurt you (damage from fire/spike field)

-Making casting a spell stop the invu effect

-Reducing time of the invulnerability

-Reducing the maps that will provide that effect . For instance, If there are no more safe zones, apoca maps should'nt be safe at any point. ( additionally those maps do have safe zones according to your last reply)

-Other Tp's like D2 cyc tp should'nt trigger Invu

Additionally,

To reduce Shit talking I would suggest some kind of restriction where you can not send more than X number of messages in red or blue chat in Y time. Or something like that, increasing sp or changing safezones has already been done . shit talking is still happening. Not sure if this has reduced this at all . The price we paid for that little reduction on shit talking (if any ) was a big gameplay change

Back in the day if people couldn't stand someone's shit talking you could just use /tooff.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Moha

[breakM 0]

Boxing is extremely frowned upon and i have always been against it. Its just an easy and coward way to farm eks.

 

I like the new system, but you should do something so people cant move from map to map to be safe. Invulnerability shouldnt work after 2-3 map changes in 1 minute. I think its a great way to avoid safers and the supporters MaynarD mentioned.

 

EDIT: Want to deal with shittalkers and spammers? Switch ! for ~ and ~ for !.

Edited September 3, 2013 by breakM

[~WhiteFang 0]

A possible option is to adjust invulnerability as following:

- No invulnerability upon using crusade teleportation.

- Casting any spell on another play then yourself has no effect with invulnerability on.

 

These 2 suggestions would solve all negative sides that invulnerability causes.

[213 0]

A possible option is to adjust invulnerability as following:

- No invulnerability upon using crusade teleportation.

- Casting any spell on another play then yourself has no effect with invulnerability on.

 

These 2 suggestions would solve all negative sides that invulnerability causes.

I 110% agree with the crusade thing. Actually I think that Invulnerability should be completely removed from Crusade. You have nothing to lose here other then an EK.

 

I like the 2nd Idea but how about this. Casting a spell while invulnerable will work BUT automatically debuff the invulnerability buff if done so.

[breakM 0]

 

I like the 2nd Idea but how about this. Casting a spell while invulnerable will work BUT automatically debuff the invulnerability buff if done so.

 

 

What if you want to amp yourself? It should debuff if you cast a spell in someone else.

[Moha 0]

Thank you for your reply guys.

 

A possible option is to adjust invulnerability as following:

- No invulnerability upon using crusade teleportation.

- Casting any spell on another play then yourself has no effect with invulnerability on.

These 2 suggestions would solve all negative sides that invulnerability causes.

 

Those two changes will solve some negative effects, but not all.

 

You've stated that Invu is supposed to help out "slow hardware/connection" players to load all data.

If any of those "slow hardware/connection " starts casting a spell. that means they are ready to go . At that point , they should INSTANTLY lose INVU.

 

Once again, I've seen some other players reading this topic. Please go ahead and share your thoughts

[213 0]

You are right. Any casting of a spell, including recall, should instantly remove the buff....

[aengis 0]

You are right. Any casting of a spell, including recall, should instantly remove the buff....

nope, since if that happens people will box in every entrance of map / exit of building

[213 0]

 

You are right. Any casting of a spell, including recall, should instantly remove the buff....

nope, since if that happens people will box in every entrance of map / exit of building

 

Boxing doesnt mater if they arnt all amped, a mage can use blizznd fly somebody off to get away......

[Xolotl 0]

I think benefit to the server is overall more in invulnerability's camp. Forget about the shit-talking, consider the amount of PvP you lose from the many people who will play it safe and sit in WH when they hear there's a box in D2 and feel there is not enough backup to break it.

 

 

A possible option is to adjust invulnerability as following:

- No invulnerability upon using crusade teleportation.

- Casting any spell on another play then yourself has no effect with invulnerability on.

 

These 2 suggestions would solve all negative sides that invulnerability causes.

 

That should just about resolve all the issues here. Though the second one sounds a bit over-complicated, I could be missing an angle on why you have it that way, but why not simply make casting spells on other players have no effect with invulnerability? I don't understand "then yourself"

EDIT: got it now lol. sorry i don't always think too smooth when i drink plenty of coffee

 

Someone else mentioned that you shouldn't be able to get 3 invulnerability buffs under a minute, I agree with that, putting a limit there will help seal the deal.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Xolotl

[~farjat 0]

if i am not wrong. theres a different point on casting, and on shooting what u casted.

 

Invul should go when u SHOOT not when u cast. then if u cast amp u will loose invul. or if u cast recall u will loose it but later recall

 

possible?

[toneeh 0]

I for one and many others of my guild enjoy the old style of helbreath where camp boxing is normal. Having said this, pvp boxing also happens and this requires skill.

 

I think we shouldn't try and take too much away from how Helbreath used to be. I think invulnerbility should only be applied to some maps. Perhaps town > ML only.

 

I like it if the other town wins the ML tp, they have to worry about whether or not that place is being boxed... now, its just way too easy to recall and this is MORE frustrating than shit-talkers from my POV.

[Appetite 0]

 

A possible option is to adjust invulnerability as following:

- No invulnerability upon using crusade teleportation.

- Casting any spell on another play then yourself has no effect with invulnerability on.

 

These 2 suggestions would solve all negative sides that invulnerability causes.

I 110% agree with the crusade thing. Actually I think that Invulnerability should be completely removed from Crusade. You have nothing to lose here other then an EK.

 

I like the 2nd Idea but how about this. Casting a spell while invulnerable will work BUT automatically debuff the invulnerability buff if done so.

 

Should break if u cast a Offensive Spell only and still cant amp/pfm/zerk/invis own town members while in invulnerability mode

[213 0]

Boxes are completely lame and is no different then laming EK's, Its a free kill. I for 1 am glad boxing has been made more difficult at least in the yes of getting hero armor, you will actually have to earn it with skill rather then by numbers.

[Moha 0]

if i am not wrong. theres a different point on casting, and on shooting what u casted.

 

Invul should go when u SHOOT not when u cast. then if u cast amp u will loose invul. or if u cast recall u will loose it but later recall

 

possible?

My question would be : why?

 

Ganking/surpising enemy has always been a part of HB. Invulnerability has changed COMPLETLY the way raids are done.

[Guerrero 0]

I think at 180 lvl invul. should disappear in town. If u dont know by lvl 180 that there could b a box. bad luck.

 

Invul should just b for when entering ML . not during sade.

 

If u maintain invul make it so when cast is acted ..u lose invul. for eva. until u recall to town. No matter da if u keep da time. only one shot of invul is sufficient.

 

on a side note. what happens when some clown forget to zems up x 2. Dies on a raid. tps back. then happens to die on way shop or Wh. n he then gets free passage back to wh ... by top toeing from building to buildin with invul buff??. Just this alone kills da true element of preparation.

[toneeh 0]

HB is fun when people drop their items... and they need to die for this to happen.

 

Invulnerbility just ruins it.

 

I hate it. Remove it please.

[Moha 0]

Thanks for your reply guys.

 

I think at 180 lvl invul. should disappear in town. If u dont know by lvl 180 that there could b a box. bad luck.

Invul should just b for when entering ML . not during sade.

If u maintain invul make it so when cast is acted ..u lose invul. for eva. until u recall to town. No matter da if u keep da time. only one shot of invul is sufficient.

on a side note. what happens when some clown forget to zems up x 2. Dies on a raid. tps back. then happens to die on way shop or Wh. n he then gets free passage back to wh ... by top toeing from building to buildin with invul buff??. Just this alone kills da true element of preparation.

 

This is so true.

 

Please keep posting more opinions, positive or negative so we can try to get the best option for everyone.

Thanks again

[213 0]

Boxes are = to laming EKs and saying you suppt the use of boxes to get FREE EKs just proves you have no skill.