cor3a 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2013 Since we are now able to successfully upgrade weapons and armors to +3 without losing them, does this actually make anc weapon lose their value since its unable to be upgraded? Looks like a sharp bh ns +3 will inflict more dmg and pain than an abh ns afterall? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aengis 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2013 no, the bonuses are different... it will make similar dmg yes, but not the same Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
~WhiteFang 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2013 no, the bonuses are different... it will make similar dmg yes, but not the same Exactly! Let's make a comparison here. Let's use a BH (http://www.helbreathnemesis.com/portal/index.php?action=item&id=206) and only calculate for s/m damage. Normal BH: 3D8+1 (4~25) avg* 12 Sharp stat: adds +1 to range. Ancient stat: adds +2 to range. Sharp BH: 3D9+1 (4~28) avg* 13,5 Ancient BH: 3D10+1 (4~31) avg* 15 Upgrade stat: adds +x damage after throwing the dice. So let's take +3 in this example. Sharp BH+3: 3D9+1+3 (7~31) avg* 12 I consider ancient is still better than sharp+3 as the average dice roll that occurs is higher, it's this average that makes the ancient bh better than the sharp. * avg calculation is based on how random number generators work and how dices are rolled in helbreath. For example in a 3D8 helbreath rolls 3 dices with 8 eyes. The average value of rolling a single 8-eyed dice is half of the amount of eyes (in this case it's 4 average), multiplied by the number of throws gives us an average of 12. As the Bonus damage (+1 in the example) and additional damage (+3 in the sharp example) are added AFTER the dice is rolled, they're left out for the avg calculation. Your hits are on average only as-good as your average dice roll. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Xolotl 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) no, the bonuses are different... it will make similar dmg yes, but not the same Normal BH: 3D8+1 (4~25) avg* 12 Sharp stat: adds +1 to range. Ancient stat: adds +2 to range. Sharp BH: 3D9+1 (4~28) avg* 13,5 Ancient BH: 3D10+1 (4~31) avg* 15 Upgrade stat: adds +x damage after throwing the dice. So let's take +3 in this example. Sharp BH+3: 3D9+1+3 (7~31) avg* 12 I consider ancient is still better than sharp+3 as the average dice roll that occurs is higher, it's this average that makes the ancient bh better than the sharp. What's going on here^ Thanks for the clarification on how dice averages, I always assumed it was the median of the difference between minimum and max. For those that still aren't sure about the superiority of ancient weapons, you get better bonus damage with Zerk and ancient than you would with +damage. Throw strength angel into the mix will also give more edge to ancient. Edited August 27, 2013 by Xolotl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomas 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2013 De cualquier manera se pierde el valor de los anc items porque no crean una diferencia importante ocmo lo hacian antes.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aengis 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2013 De cualquier manera se pierde el valor de los anc items porque no crean una diferencia importante ocmo lo hacian antes.. necesitas un sharp +4 para estar como un ancient... creo que mantiene su valor Share this post Link to post Share on other sites