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Manu Weapons

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Yes, manufactures weapons give additional Damage dependingon their Manufacturing %.

Logically a weapon below 100% would be WORSE then a shop item (as they are all 100% by default).

Those with 200% Completion will give you the maximum amount of bonus damage and higher endurance.

 

Upgrading manufactures items adds 20% more endurance to them then upgrading a normal item (which only adds 15% endurance) for each upgrade level.

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Yes, manufactures weapons give additional Damage dependingon their Manufacturing %.

Logically a weapon below 100% would be WORSE then a shop item (as they are all 100% by default).

Those with 200% Completion will give you the maximum amount of bonus damage and higher endurance.

 

Upgrading manufactures items adds 20% more endurance to them then upgrading a normal item (which only adds 15% endurance) for each upgrade level.

ooooo thanks white.... meaning it has to be 200% above then have bonus dmg? 150% above? no?

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Yes, manufactures weapons give additional Damage dependingon their Manufacturing %.

Logically a weapon below 100% would be WORSE then a shop item (as they are all 100% by default).

Those with 200% Completion will give you the maximum amount of bonus damage and higher endurance.

 

Upgrading manufactures items adds 20% more endurance to them then upgrading a normal item (which only adds 15% endurance) for each upgrade level.

ooooo thanks white.... meaning it has to be 200% above then have bonus dmg? 150% above? no?

 

A weapon 101% completion is better than a blacksmith-weapon (which is 100%).

So a 150% weapon is better than a blacksmith-weapon.

Higher completion = more bonus damage.

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you know how is the formula according to the percentage of purees ? gives the more damage?

 

Manufactured Items Damage Bonus: (Weapons Only)

(Completion % - 100) devided by 100 multiplied by 5 = additional damage

e.g.: 200% Completion: ((200 - 100) / 100) * 5 = (100 / 100) * 5 = 1 * 5 = 5 -> additional damage = 5

e.g. 150% Completion: ((150 - 100) / 100) * 5 = (50 / 100) * 5 = 0,5 * 5 = 2,5 -> additional damage = 2

e.g. 80% Completion: ((80 - 100) / 100) * 5 = (-20 / 100) * 5 = -0,2 * 5 = -1 -> additional damage = -1 !!! NEGATIVE BONUS !

 

this "Additional Damage" is added to your Minimum Damage (Throw + Bonus) and also to your Maximum Damage (Throw * Range + Bonus)

e.g. Barbarian Hammer - 3D9+2 (5~29)

Completion 100% (shop): 3 + 2 + 0 = 5 damage minimum, 3 * 9 + 2 + 0 = 29 damage maximum

Completion 200%: 3 + 2 + 5 = 10 damage minimum, 3 * 9 + 2 + 5 = 34 damage maximum

*Note: The mentioned "minimum" and "maximum" damage are only the BASE of the weapons calculations, strength bonuses, necklace/rings bonuses or any others bonuses are NOT added to this formula as they are not directly involved in the manu' damage formula.

Even though the +5 doesn't seem much, but it results into much more damage as additional formula's still need to be applied, manu's bonus is located at the BASE of the calculation resulting in a major damage addition in the end of the calculation

 

Manufactured item defense bonus: (armors only)

((Completion % - 100) devided by 100 multiplied by their natural DR) devided by 2.

With this formula, having a 200% item would result into * 1,5 DR of the armor piece itself.

Having a 150% would result into a * 1,25 DR of the armor piece itself.

e.g. Knight Plate Mail - 40 DR

150% Completion: ((150 - 100) / 100) * 40 = ((50 / 100) * 40) / 2 = (0,5 * 40) / 2 = 10 additional defence (-> 40 + 10 = 50 DR total)

200% Completion: ((200 - 100) / 100) * 40 = ((100 / 100) * 40) / 2 = (1 * 40) / 2 = 20 additional defence (-> 40 + 20 = 60 DR total)

 

Upgraded Damage Bonus:

When upgrading a weapon to +1, +2, +3 etc its damage bonus is simply measured by the + is has, a +5 weapon would add 5 additional damage. (This damage is added AFTER the dices are thrown, AFTER the berserk double damage, they're counted all together with ring/neck damage bonuses, which are also added AFTER berserk double damage.)

 

----

 

Bottom line, manufactured items do ARE stronger (as in dealing more damage for weapons) and gain MORE endurance when upgraded (+20% instead of the usual +15% from Blacksmith or statted items), therefore we can simply make the conclusion that manufactured items are better to use than shop items.

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Manu 200% BBH adds +5 to base dice damage?

Base Dice Dmg: 3d9+2+5 S/M size (10~34)

3d10+2+5 L size (10~37)

 

We have a BBH 200% +1, multiple testing was done on crops & mobs, only normal hitting without zerk, rings/necks, it does 2-3 pts less then a BBH +4 (blacksmith). Test was conducted more then 6 months ago.

 

If the above formula is correct then a manu BBH 200% +0 should hit as hard if not harder then an Anc BH or it should at least be on par or even better than a BBH+4 or +5 (blacksmith), since the +5 dmg is granted automatically by reaching 200% completion status.

(whether the +5 is added on base dmg or calculated at the end like rings/necks/xelima upgrade, does not really matter becoz just by taking the +5 bonus, not modified by str/zerk or any other formula it should perform better then a BBH+4)

 

BH dmg dice according to portal: 3d8+1 S/M size (4~25)

3d10+1 L size (4~31)

 

Anc BH dmg dice: 3d10+1 S/M size (4~31)

3d12+1 L size (4~37)

 

If you compare the base dmg dice posted here for comparison, BBH 200% +0 should provide the best dmg for S/M/L size (both PvP & PvM)

 

Just looking for clarification.

After using BBH+4 (BS), Manu BBH200% +1 & Anc BH, I still find BBH+4 & Anc BH hitting harder.

But the information given above shows otherwise, are these data provided accurate & complete?

Thank you.

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Manu 200% BBH adds +5 to base dice damage?

Base Dice Dmg: 3d9+2+5 S/M size (10~34)

3d10+2+5 L size (10~37)

 

We have a BBH 200% +1, multiple testing was done on crops & mobs, only normal hitting without zerk, rings/necks, it does 2-3 pts less then a BBH +4 (blacksmith). Test was conducted more then 6 months ago.

 

If the above formula is correct then a manu BBH 200% +0 should hit as hard if not harder then an Anc BH or it should at least be on par or even better than a BBH+4 or +5 (blacksmith), since the +5 dmg is granted automatically by reaching 200% completion status.

(whether the +5 is added on base dmg or calculated at the end like rings/necks/xelima upgrade, does not really matter becoz just by taking the +5 bonus, not modified by str/zerk or any other formula it should perform better then a BBH+4)

 

BH dmg dice according to portal: 3d8+1 S/M size (4~25)

3d10+1 L size (4~31)

 

Anc BH dmg dice: 3d10+1 S/M size (4~31)

3d12+1 L size (4~37)

 

If you compare the base dmg dice posted here for comparison, BBH 200% +0 should provide the best dmg for S/M/L size (both PvP & PvM)

 

Just looking for clarification.

After using BBH+4 (BS), Manu BBH200% +1 & Anc BH, I still find BBH+4 & Anc BH hitting harder.

But the information given above shows otherwise, are these data provided accurate & complete?

Thank you.

 

The information I provided is accurate, I looked it up before posting it.

 

Compaing BBH 4~25 andanc BH 4~31 indeed makes a different damage where the anc BH would perform the best.

Why would it be best? because the average damage dealt by it is higher than BBH's average. (BBH: 14,5, ANC BH: 17,5) which results in the fact that an ancient BH is indeed better in average damage than a BBH would be.

Nothing changes those things, manufacturing affects the min/max damage, it does not affect the Throw, Range or Bonus at all.

With BBH+4, the Throw, Range of Bonus isn't affected either, as the +4 deals +4 additional damage, which comes on top of the basic damage.

Therefore when actual throwing of dices takes place, it doesn't matter if your BBH is manu'ed, upgraded or a shop bbh, its TRB (throw range bonus) isn't changed, only other different values are changed, so the average damage is always equally.

Comparing it to an Ancient BH, who's Range is affected by the Ancient stat (+2) shows that it do is better seen on an average and longterm scale.

When compaing them in power, you'll see that BBH's manued and upgraded can hit way higher than an ABH would possibly hit, so the final question remains, take an ABH and get a good average damage? or take the stronger BBH with a slightly lower average damage but pump out bigger amounts of damage?

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you know how is the formula according to the percentage of purees ? gives the more damage?

 

Manufactured Items Damage Bonus: (Weapons Only)

(Completion % - 100) devided by 100 multiplied by 5 = additional damage

e.g.: 200% Completion: ((200 - 100) / 100) * 5 = (100 / 100) * 5 = 1 * 5 = 5 -> additional damage = 5

e.g. 150% Completion: ((150 - 100) / 100) * 5 = (50 / 100) * 5 = 0,5 * 5 = 2,5 -> additional damage = 2

e.g. 80% Completion: ((80 - 100) / 100) * 5 = (-20 / 100) * 5 = -0,2 * 5 = -1 -> additional damage = -1 !!! NEGATIVE BONUS !

 

this "Additional Damage" is added to your Minimum Damage (Throw + Bonus) and also to your Maximum Damage (Throw * Range + Bonus)

e.g. Barbarian Hammer - 3D9+2 (5~29)

Completion 100% (shop): 3 + 2 + 0 = 5 damage minimum, 3 * 9 + 2 + 0 = 29 damage maximum

Completion 200%: 3 + 2 + 5 = 10 damage minimum, 3 * 9 + 2 + 5 = 34 damage maximum

*Note: The mentioned "minimum" and "maximum" damage are only the BASE of the weapons calculations, strength bonuses, necklace/rings bonuses or any others bonuses are NOT added to this formula as they are not directly involved in the manu' damage formula.

Even though the +5 doesn't seem much, but it results into much more damage as additional formula's still need to be applied, manu's bonus is located at the BASE of the calculation resulting in a major damage addition in the end of the calculation

 

Manufactured item defense bonus: (armors only)

(Completion % - 100) devided by 100 multiplied by their natural DR.

With this formula, having a 200% item would result into * 2 DR of the armor piece itself.

Having a 150% would result into a * 1,5 DR of the armor piece itself.

e.g. Knight Plate Mail - 40 DR

150% Completion: ((150 - 100) / 100) * 40 = (50 / 100) * 40 = 0,5 * 40 = 20 additional defence (-> 40 + 20 = 60 DR total)

200% Completion: ((200 - 100) / 100) * 40 = (100 / 100) * 40 = 1 * 40 = 40 additional defence (-> 40 + 40 = 80 DR total)

 

Upgraded Damage Bonus:

When upgrading a weapon to +1, +2, +3 etc its damage bonus is simply measured by the + is has, a +5 weapon would add 5 additional damage. (This damage is added AFTER the dices are thrown, AFTER the berserk double damage, they're counted all together with ring/neck damage bonuses, which are also added AFTER berserk double damage.)

 

----

 

Bottom line, manufactured items do ARE stronger (as in dealing more damage for weapons) and gain MORE endurance when upgraded (+20% instead of the usual +15% from Blacksmith or statted items), therefore we can simply make the conclusion that manufactured items are better to use than shop items.

 

A BS BBH 3d9+2 (5~29) is indeed weaker than an Anc BH 3d10+1 (4~31).

I was not comparing a BS BBH, to an Anc BH. It was between a BS BBH+4, Manu200% BBH+1 & Anc BH.

What I posted above & what I do not understand is, if a manued 200% BBH does have a +5 inherent base dmg dice bonus, it would change its dice dmg to : 3d9+2+5 (10~34) which was posted on your original post which makes it a superior weapon.

 

As I mentioned, I have conducted a test on the manu 200% BBH+1 & hits no where close to a Blacksmith BBH+4 or the Anc BH.

You mention on your reply above manu % does not affect TRB (throw, range, bonus) it just affects min/max.

What does this mean?

Does it provide a +5 to min & max or not?

Is the BBH dice dmg correct as shown in your original post for manu additional dmg: 3d9+2+5 (10~34 on S/M size mobs)

It seems to me it changes the TRB on your original post.

 

On your reply you mention it does not change the TRB whether its upgraded, manued or shop.

So conclusion? does it provide any dmg bonus at all?

 

As far as I am aware, my manu 200% BBH does not provide anything other than a deeper color & more end.

Your last post advise the manu BBH would hit harder than a anc BH but with lower average dmg?

Why does it have a lower average? manu200% BBH dmg: 10~34 averages at 22 (dmg taken from your original post) compare to Anc BH 4~31 averages 17.5

I am sorry, I am really confused by this. Above dmg dice reading clearly shows the manu BBH is superior to most weapon be it average dmg calculation, higher maximum or even its min dmg.

 

So my final question remains: Does it provide the said dmg bonus as posted:

 

*(Completion % - 100) devided by 100 multiplied by 5 = additional damage

this "Additional Damage" is added to your Minimum Damage (Throw + Bonus) and also to your Maximum Damage (Throw * Range + Bonus)

e.g. Barbarian Hammer - 3D9+2 (5~29)

Completion 100% (shop): 3 + 2 + 0 = 5 damage minimum, 3 * 9 + 2 + 0 = 29 damage maximum

Completion 200%: 3 + 2 + 5 = 10 damage minimum, 3 * 9 + 2 + 5 = 34 damage maximum

*Note: The mentioned "minimum" and "maximum" damage are only the BASE of the weapons calculations, strength bonuses, necklace/rings bonuses or any others bonuses are NOT added to this formula as they are not directly involved in the manu' damage formula. Even though the +5 doesn't seem much, but it results into much more damage as additional formula's still need to be applied, manu's bonus is located at the BASE of the calculation resulting in a major damage addition in the end of the calculation*

 

Thank you.

I would like to reiterate again, if we take the above dmg dice calculation for manu200% BBH, it is FAR superior to an Anc BH in all terms, with higher min, higher average dmg & higher maximum. Anc BH 3d10+1 (4~31) compare to manu BBH 200% 3d9+2+5 (10~34). It will also supersede BS BBH+4/+5. This does not seem so, please advise.

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As I mentioned before, there is a +5 damage increase to min and max but the TRB doesn't change.

 

When you attack an enemy (player or npc) the dices are rolled to calculate your damage, these dices are the TRB dices as usual.

On top of that rolled value (your damage) you gain bonus damage from Strength (stat + angel), as one point you have a calculated maximum of 25 for the BBH, but if your rolled dice is 25, and you gain the bonus damage from str stat, you CANNOT exceed this maximum of 25 as it is determined by the TRB. What manufactured items so is add increased damage to this min/max values of the TRB calculation. Where the max normally is 25 for BBH, a 200% BBH would have an increased max of +5 resulting in a total max of 30 base damage. So when the dices roll you a 25 form your TRB, and you gain additional damage from your str stat, you CAN go over the 25 with the maximum of 30 if you're using a 200% BBH.

 

That is what actually happens whenever you hit, from that base damage additional other damages are added on top of them with different formula's etc to finally have a specific damage you'll deal.

 

So your mentioned calculations no longer make sense as you're assuming the 200% BBH adds +5 in the TRB which it doesn't as I just explained.

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kinda long explanations, let me slowly digest it. :)

 

btw, white, you mentioned 150% - 199% gives +2dmg.... and also upgrace +1,+2,+3.....etc etc gives additional endu?

 

i up from +1 to +2 but endu remains the same. Y?

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As I mentioned before, there is a +5 damage increase to min and max but the TRB doesn't change.

 

When you attack an enemy (player or npc) the dices are rolled to calculate your damage, these dices are the TRB dices as usual.

On top of that rolled value (your damage) you gain bonus damage from Strength (stat + angel), as one point you have a calculated maximum of 25 for the BBH, but if your rolled dice is 25, and you gain the bonus damage from str stat, you CANNOT exceed this maximum of 25 as it is determined by the TRB. What manufactured items so is add increased damage to this min/max values of the TRB calculation. Where the max normally is 25 for BBH, a 200% BBH would have an increased max of +5 resulting in a total max of 30 base damage. So when the dices roll you a 25 form your TRB, and you gain additional damage from your str stat, you CAN go over the 25 with the maximum of 30 if you're using a 200% BBH.

 

That is what actually happens whenever you hit, from that base damage additional other damages are added on top of them with different formula's etc to finally have a specific damage you'll deal.

 

So your mentioned calculations no longer make sense as you're assuming the 200% BBH adds +5 in the TRB which it doesn't as I just explained.

 

 

Hi White, sorry to trouble you.

Still kind of confusing :P

 

Let me try to understand your post above. Really sorry to be troublesome :)

 

"On top of that rolled value (your damage) you gain bonus damage from Strength (stat + angel), as one point you have a calculated maximum of 25 for the BBH, but if your rolled dice is 25, and you gain the bonus damage from str stat, you CANNOT exceed this maximum of 25 as it is determined by the TRB"

 

The above line :

1. Does it mean if you roll the maximum weapon dice dmg you do not get any extra dmg bonus from STR?

(If Yes :Does it mean using a flam 130str it will have the same max dmg as a 200Str user?)

2. Does it mean your dmg is capped by the weapon max base dmg (TRB) regardless of your str stat/bonus?

3. Manued weapons will breach this cap according to its bonus like you mention above?

4. If answer is Yes to question 3, does it mean STR bonus will only show its true color using a Manued Weapon?

5. Can I conclude that STR bonus would not bring your dmg up & above its TRB (base weapon dmg), rendering STR stat kind of useless as it will only

bring your dmg up to the base max weapon dmg & not BEYOND unless your using a manued weapon above 100%++ according to the table

you provided?

6. If dmg is capped by the weapon TRB, eg. BBH 3d9+2 (max 29) with STR having no modification on this maximum, How do you actually hit 40+ with

just the BBH? (no zerk, no ring, no neck, no upgrade, fresh from BS, just your 200STR stat & your BS BBH)

7. Can you share the dmg formula, if it is confidential, then its ok :D please ignore this question. Perhaps you can share what bonus does STR gives?

 

You can provide Yes/No answer to the above for clearer understanding.

Sorry to ask so many questions.

Thank you.

*Increase in ENDURANCE by upgrading +1/+2/+3 only applies to Armor* I think :P

*Base on experience, using a DK15 130Str weapon, increase in STR stat does increase the swing/dash/Crit dmg, I would really like to know if STR

doesn't modify the TRB & only gets capped at weapon max potential base value, why does dmg goes up whenever increasing STR using the

same weapon (Non Manued)?*

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1. Yes and No: If the dice is rolled and it is already your max hit (determined by TRB), it doesn't matter which STR you have as you CANNOT exceed this max hit. Does 130str or 200str make a diff using flame? it sure does, your dices are rolled, on average you roll max - min damage, your STR will in such cases provide you additional damage to make you hit higher as long as you don't exceed the maximum damage determined by the TRB. So a 200 str user will gain more bonus from his +70 str above the 130 str user, resulting in aprox +3,5 damage ON TOP of the 130 user. Again the additional damage from your STR is also randomized, with a minimum of 1 and maximum of 11 (at 200 str and +20 str angel).

 

2. Yes, the maximum base-damage is capped by the TRB, where only Ancient and Sharp increase the R resulting in a higher average and manufactured items increasing the min & max values but not affecting the TRB itself (= keeping the same average).

 

3. Yes, manu'ed items enlarge the min & max possible hit of your weapon, but they don't affect the TRB directly, so the average dice roll on them stays the same as non-manued items.

 

4. No, STR bonus shows it's true color in any weapon as you always gain the str bonus, but your TRB dice roll + str bonus cannot exceed the maximum TRB damage (of the max + manu bonus when the item is manufactured).

 

5. Yes and No, Str indeed can't bring your base-damage above the max damage determined by TRB + eventually manu bonus, and no it does not render STR useless.

 

6. The max value I speak about is base damage (dice roll + str bonus), after that is determined and capped to their min & max value, the hit-formula continues by adding other indevidual item bonuses (rep for kloness for example), damage bonuses (rings, necklaces etc), dashing or critting bonuses aswell as indevidual item bonuses, reduction of damage by VIT absorption of the enemy, reduction of damage by the PA of the enemy, etc etc,... many things are still calculated afterwards resulting in a higher hit then the mentioned "max value" earlier in the topic.

 

7. We do not share the full formula, we only explained in discussions as these the purpose and functionality of certain abalities (manufacturing in this case) and their effect within this formula (their load on the total picture), but the exact formula is not released as we prefer to keep things fun rather than math-based science game. Some weapons indeed over-rule others, but each weapon has its own special thing, if it isn't in a special ability or higher max hit or higher average damage, it'll probably be rather in rarity or difficultry to produce such item(s).

 

---

 

Endurance increase should, if i'm correct, be applied to both weapons and armors, I should look this up in the old formula to see if I transformed the code correctly as I refactored it recently (last update).

 

To answer you why more STR = more damage, it comes to a formula or explenation that applies to both manu'ed and non-manued items.

A weapon has a specific TRB, let's say BBH 3D9+2, so we know our minimum if 5 and maximum is 29.

Whenever you hit an enemy, the server rolls 3 dices with 9 eyes and adds 2 damage to it.

The average of 3D9+2 is 15,5 (9 / 2 = 4,5 -> 4,5 * 3 = 13,5 -> 13,5 + 2 = 15,5), so in theory when performing 100 hits, your average should be 15,5.

If you conduct this test pruly based on this TRB, it'll indeed show this.

After this dice is rolled, another dice is rolled to determine your STR bonus, it's 1 dice with STR / 20 eyes (200 STR + 20 angel = 220 str / 20 = 11), so 1D11+0 is rolled.

This 1D11+0 rolls 5,5 as average (11 / 2 = 5,5).

So when the first 3D9+2 is rolled, the second dice is rolled 1D11+0 and they're counted together resulting in a specific value and then checked if it rolled below min or above max.

So we can see that in theory our average now becomes 15,5 + 5,5 = 21.

So a player who has less STR, will have a lesser STR bonus, resulting in a lower average damage.

 

 

I hope this explained all your questions ;)

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oooooo long explanation ..... i think i get what its being discussed here.

 

but white, please check on the upgrading for weapons/armors as i up +1 / +2 endu remains the same for weapon.

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