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i dont want to sound like an as$hole, but i think ppl pulling is a matter that needs a fix way sooner than pvping for items... and thats the whole idea of this topic

 

 

 

letrita: si lees un poco lo que puse te vas a dar cuenta que dije en safe con summons, no en agites, en agites se mueren antes de dcear obviamente...

 

sure, how you suggest "detect" if somone pull or if somone lose power/internet?

and if detected, what should happen? player stand there the rest of his life or untill he die?

come up with a fair and good plan, we could consider.

According to me, there is no way to see if somone pulls or loses power/internet.

 

So how have GMs been able to determine that people in the past have pulled, and been banned for such offense if there is no way to determine a pull or a legit dc? Answer is common sense, it is very very easy to tell when someone pulls or dcs. In a big fight, if someone is standing still and then becomes the target of everyone else, its obviously a dc. But when someone is being targeted and runs for a while and gets parad and magically dcs the moment that will save his life, its obviously a pull.Also with such a small community it is pretty easy to identify people/guilds that are "known pullers" And i believe as this topic suggests that it is the same basic groups of people that are continuously pulling. Pulling the plug is essentially abusing a flaw in the server unfairly, aka bug abusing/hacking. I know that people in this server have been perm banned for far less infractions. So my suggestion is to make the penalty far greater than the benefit of saving 1 zem and giving 1 ek. I know in the past the penalty for pulling varies from player to player and which GM sees the pull. But i think there should be something more solid to detour these people from pulling. Say 1st offense is a 1 month ban, and the 2nd should be a perm ban. Ek laming in this server is an absolute nono and is punished by a perm ban everytime. Well imo pulling gives just as much of a disadvantage as someone laming eks, as it prohibits the legit earning of an ek that someone worked hard for. I think with a little stern monitoring/punishing of these offenses will stop the actions all together. People that work for long periods of time and spend lots of money, i believe, they would rather die than get there chars banned forever. Longest post in my history without profanity, hope it makes some sense :D

 

I've read only first few lines, and summary i get from your explenation: common sense & intelligence is needed.

 

a GM has common sense and intelligence from nature, as he or she is a natural person.

GM's determined indeed in the past if something was pulling or not by judging with their own eyes and using their common sense.

 

A system (game server) cannot detect this because it has no intelligence and no common sense built in for detecting such things.

So, invent me an Artificial Intelligence Algorithm for this, and we'll test it and see if its good enough or not.

(I don't expect you to rlly do this, AI's are the hardest things in programming to create, but if you insist, take a look at a simple AI such as an AI for Chess or Tetris, which arn't event full-ai's as they don't really learn from their previous mistakes, especially in chess.)

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So i waste my time thinking of a solution, and putting it into words you can understand, and you can't even read the whole thing... boooo

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So i waste my time thinking of a solution, and putting it into words you can understand, and you can't even read the whole thing... boooo

add recording programs to the client + setable hotkey to activate it.

 

most of the times you know when someone is going to pull (boxed or being badly owned) so you can turn it on when you suspect it might happen.

 

 

most of the pullers do it more than once, so its a matter of time before anyone tapes it.. and by making it a client thing, more than one person can film it.

 

 

 

Bonus track:

 

- more great action filmed!

 

 

 

 

i win, best solution ever.. alcohol makes me so smart, im great, i know it.

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Same old story.

 

You know what i also find pathetic? The fact that you exist Dario. <3

 

Just came to say hi and see how are you guys doing :D

Edited by vazkitoo

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tldr'd on a suggest topic when some1 trying to contribute isnt nice bro !

 

anyway i think best solution is add a video button on hb, ( if thats possible)

 

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tldr'd on a suggest topic when some1 trying to contribute isnt nice bro !

 

anyway i think best solution is add a video button on hb, ( if thats possible)

 

that's a very good one.

 

I don't think pulling can be stop, but should be reduced. Also, what if players disconnected due to lag or lost their power supply. You can't expect everyone have a good line like others. This has to be think carefully.

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take ss as evidence, im taking ss every 5 secs of any1 boxed with summons, if they disappear within 10 secs from one ss to another one, is clearly pulling...

 

 

Also can u force urself with multiclient? if this is possible it shouldnt be allowed

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i dont want to sound like an as$hole, but i think ppl pulling is a matter that needs a fix way sooner than pvping for items... and thats the whole idea of this topic

 

 

 

letrita: si lees un poco lo que puse te vas a dar cuenta que dije en safe con summons, no en agites, en agites se mueren antes de dcear obviamente...

 

sure, how you suggest "detect" if somone pull or if somone lose power/internet?

and if detected, what should happen? player stand there the rest of his life or untill he die?

come up with a fair and good plan, we could consider.

According to me, there is no way to see if somone pulls or loses power/internet.

 

So how have GMs been able to determine that people in the past have pulled, and been banned for such offense if there is no way to determine a pull or a legit dc? Answer is common sense, it is very very easy to tell when someone pulls or dcs. In a big fight, if someone is standing still and then becomes the target of everyone else, its obviously a dc. But when someone is being targeted and runs for a while and gets parad and magically dcs the moment that will save his life, its obviously a pull.Also with such a small community it is pretty easy to identify people/guilds that are "known pullers" And i believe as this topic suggests that it is the same basic groups of people that are continuously pulling. Pulling the plug is essentially abusing a flaw in the server unfairly, aka bug abusing/hacking. I know that people in this server have been perm banned for far less infractions. So my suggestion is to make the penalty far greater than the benefit of saving 1 zem and giving 1 ek. I know in the past the penalty for pulling varies from player to player and which GM sees the pull. But i think there should be something more solid to detour these people from pulling. Say 1st offense is a 1 month ban, and the 2nd should be a perm ban. Ek laming in this server is an absolute nono and is punished by a perm ban everytime. Well imo pulling gives just as much of a disadvantage as someone laming eks, as it prohibits the legit earning of an ek that someone worked hard for. I think with a little stern monitoring/punishing of these offenses will stop the actions all together. People that work for long periods of time and spend lots of money, i believe, they would rather die than get there chars banned forever. Longest post in my history without profanity, hope it makes some sense :D

 

We never hesitated banning people who pulled, but we cant simple take a person word, because they can lie if they got frustrated for not being able to kill, or for whatever reason.

If you record it, we can and will ban, but otherwise there's nothing to be done that arent being done already.

Pulling always means a ban, first offense generally is 1 week, and than its progressive.

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i dont want to sound like an as$hole, but i think ppl pulling is a matter that needs a fix way sooner than pvping for items... and thats the whole idea of this topic

 

 

 

letrita: si lees un poco lo que puse te vas a dar cuenta que dije en safe con summons, no en agites, en agites se mueren antes de dcear obviamente...

 

sure, how you suggest "detect" if somone pull or if somone lose power/internet?

and if detected, what should happen? player stand there the rest of his life or untill he die?

come up with a fair and good plan, we could consider.

According to me, there is no way to see if somone pulls or loses power/internet.

 

So how have GMs been able to determine that people in the past have pulled, and been banned for such offense if there is no way to determine a pull or a legit dc? Answer is common sense, it is very very easy to tell when someone pulls or dcs. In a big fight, if someone is standing still and then becomes the target of everyone else, its obviously a dc. But when someone is being targeted and runs for a while and gets parad and magically dcs the moment that will save his life, its obviously a pull.Also with such a small community it is pretty easy to identify people/guilds that are "known pullers" And i believe as this topic suggests that it is the same basic groups of people that are continuously pulling. Pulling the plug is essentially abusing a flaw in the server unfairly, aka bug abusing/hacking. I know that people in this server have been perm banned for far less infractions. So my suggestion is to make the penalty far greater than the benefit of saving 1 zem and giving 1 ek. I know in the past the penalty for pulling varies from player to player and which GM sees the pull. But i think there should be something more solid to detour these people from pulling. Say 1st offense is a 1 month ban, and the 2nd should be a perm ban. Ek laming in this server is an absolute nono and is punished by a perm ban everytime. Well imo pulling gives just as much of a disadvantage as someone laming eks, as it prohibits the legit earning of an ek that someone worked hard for. I think with a little stern monitoring/punishing of these offenses will stop the actions all together. People that work for long periods of time and spend lots of money, i believe, they would rather die than get there chars banned forever. Longest post in my history without profanity, hope it makes some sense :D

 

We never hesitated banning people who pulled, but we cant simple take a person word, because they can lie if they got frustrated for not being able to kill, or for whatever reason.

If you record it, we can and will ban, but otherwise there's nothing to be done that arent being done already.

Pulling always means a ban, first offense generally is 1 week, and than its progressive.

 

I'm saying, bump up the penalty for when GMs witness pullers. It doesnt take long for word to spread on this game. if a GM were to find 1-2 pullers a week and give them the ban stick, i bet the community would get the idea fast. Maybe even going in game and giving general announcement throughout the day so people not on the forums are crystal clear on the penalty for pulling. Making a recording device sounds great, but i believe there are wayy more important things to be coded than that in my opinion. LIKE A REPAIR ALL BUTTON lol.

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Have characters persist in the world for a specified amount of time after they disconnect legitimately or otherwise. Like 3 seconds.

 

If you weren't in a situation where you're dying - you'll be fine. Even so, you should be zem'd and if you aren't...you suffer the consequences for being foolish.

 

"BUT WAT IF POWER GOES OUT OR MY CAT PISSES ON MY COMPUTER AND IT DIES AND WHAT IF MY COMPUTER GETS HIT BY A BUS THAT WAS HIJACKED BY A CRIMINAL AND WRECKED INTO MY HOUSE~!! MY HELBREATH CHARACTER WOULD DIE BECAUSE I HAPPENED TO BE FIGHTING!!!"

 

People deal with this in other games. Hell, even text-based MUD's have anti-pulling mechanisms like this.

 

IPB Image

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first offense of pulling should be a 2 month ban, and then a permanent ban....1 week ban is nothing :S

1 week for first offence is perfectly fine imo, giving no 2nd chances

 

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Have characters persist in the world for a specified amount of time after they disconnect legitimately or otherwise. Like 3 seconds.

 

If you weren't in a situation where you're dying - you'll be fine. Even so, you should be zem'd and if you aren't...you suffer the consequences for being foolish.

 

That's exactly what I meant....

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take ss as evidence, im taking ss every 5 secs of any1 boxed with summons, if they disappear within 10 secs from one ss to another one, is clearly pulling...

 

 

Also can u force urself with multiclient? if this is possible it shouldnt be allowed

this is not true, you just miss the insert key when trying to chug your *censored* off ^_^

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We are building this server to be as unsupported as possible.

 

Theres not a perfect way to care this. For now at least.

 

We can add some things like more time on force disconnections and more logout time. But will not solve the problem 100% anyway,

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i think something nice would be that u cant force ur acc with same ip, well idk if thats the right idea, but the point is that many ppl is abusing multiclient to force themselves, and that sucks....

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I know there are ss that doesnt prove anything, but some does. Ill post ss of another server that to show you:

 

CK+FW+SUMMONS (10 secs without being hit to dc, plus 10 secs that takes to dc, that makes it 20)

 

IPB Image

IPB Image

 

I think that you should take SOME ss in consideration, and ofc vids.

 

 

EDIT: LOL, i deleted the 1st ss which was pretty much the same as the 2nd, but i forgot to hide the SS message showing the name of the ss and server name :P

Edited by vazkitoo

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i think something nice would be that u cant force ur acc with same ip, well idk if thats the right idea, but the point is that many ppl is abusing multiclient to force themselves, and that sucks....

na thats messi. will *censored* u when u are really trying to force yourself not for cheat than a real solution.

Making force 20 seconds is enoff to deal forcers.

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ye sounds ok

 

 

well, u could add like a limited time between 2 forces, i ve seen ppl forcing themselves, logging, forcing themselves again, etc...

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I know there are ss that doesnt prove anything, but some does. Ill post ss of another server that to show you:

 

CK+FW+SUMMONS (10 secs without being hit to dc, plus 10 secs that takes to dc, that makes it 20)

 

IPB Image

IPB Image

 

I think that you should take SOME ss in consideration, and ofc vids.

 

 

EDIT: LOL, i deleted the 1st ss which was pretty much the same as the 2nd, but i forgot to hide the SS message showing the name of the ss and server name :P

 

why you try to hide the date lol, i know the SS comes from http://mundohelbreath.com/ so what's your point anyway?

The SS's you show prove nothing at all, cuz can't see the date.

 

And calu is right, increasing force time will reduce force-"pulling" already.

We'll add to test server for testing, then its there and scheduled for next release :P

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The SS's you show prove nothing at all, cuz can't see the date.

 

He's showing that sometimes things can be proved via screenshots. He's not trying to turn anyone here in, as it's obviously not this server. Also, the date shouldn't be needed as you earlier stated that its impossible to check the logs and discern if it was an "legit (lol)" disconnect.

 

Multiple screenshots can prove anything, seeing as how you can turn them into a video/animation using numerous different editing software.

 

#pull pls

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Actually those SS cant prove if he did pull (probably he DID, but we are not sure). He could just bump+dc... and players boxed him

 

SS doesnt help unless you take a considerable amount, if not exaggerated, of screen shoots

Of course i dont need SS from the moment he went out of the shop to the moment he dissapeared, but i must see how did everything happened and i cant get that from SS

 

A Vid would help, yes.

 

From my experience as a player, i can notice when someone pull when im playing... but still is hard to notice it when there is a big fight and im not paying attention to the one i see boxed later. Sometimes i think he did pull but if im not sure i will not ban him.

If the puller is my target, i do.

 

I have played on many unknow characters and/or friends chars to play quietly... honestly, almost EVERY time i got a bump+dc people start to shout "puller"... I am sure most of you (mostly those who arent from USA) went through the same thing. That is why:

A- Players usually have no idea when someone pull

B- Players get frustrated easily, accuse and hate so much over a game to try to get someone banned

That is why we cant just take player's word

 

Those who asked a program to detect pullers, it is NOT possible... you cant know (i mean, from logs or w/e) when someone pull or get discconected. You need an human eye to reason and jugde.

 

Those who wants the char to stay connected for few seconds after they get disconnected, it is a bad idea.

It is an international server where most of the players (i cant count more than 10 players from usa) are far away from the server. If you are from USA may be you dont get bumped often, but the rest of the players do it... a lot (and i mean a LOT)

You get bumped, the screen move back where your char actually stayed frozen and you didnt noticed it when you thought you were just running fine, then you cant move for 5 seconds... and get disconnected. -> Bump+DC

I used to get like 1 bump+dc per hour, i saw others players getting bumped+dc often too

Make the char stay few seconds more after the DC, and you will make almost every player with high fps and far from the server to be a free ek. Because when you get a bump+dc usually you die (you notice the bump too late and because of the delay-lag you cant chug) or you DC with few hp, you literally cant resist few seconds more of not chugging

 

Yes, may be pullers will stop but for 10 pullers you will punish over 100 innocent players.

 

 

Disabling the force log out with the same IP or when their hp/sp dicrease, might help a little bit.

20 seconds for force log out, can help.. but still a war (and more when it is amped/pfmed or with a merien shield) can take 20 seconds easily when he chug

 

The only way is to record vids, or to have almost as many fair GMs as players playing lol

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Actually those SS cant prove if he did pull (probably he DID, but we are not sure). He could just bump+dc... and players boxed him

 

SS doesnt help unless you take a considerable amount, if not exaggerated, of screen shoots

Of course i dont need SS from the moment he went out of the shop to the moment he dissapeared, but i must see how did everything happened and i cant get that from SS

 

A Vid would help, yes.

 

From my experience as a player, i can notice when someone pull when im playing... but still is hard to notice it when there is a big fight and im not paying attention to the one i see boxed later. Sometimes i think he did pull but if im not sure i will not ban him.

If the puller is my target, i do.

 

I have played on many unknow characters and/or friends chars to play quietly... honestly, almost EVERY time i got a bump+dc people start to shout "puller"... I am sure most of you (mostly those who arent from USA) went through the same thing. That is why:

A- Players usually have no idea when someone pull

B- Players get frustrated easily, accuse and hate so much over a game to try to get someone banned

That is why we cant just take player's word

 

Those who asked a program to detect pullers, it is NOT possible... you cant know (i mean, from logs or w/e) when someone pull or get discconected. You need an human eye to reason and jugde.

 

Those who wants the char to stay connected for few seconds after they get disconnected, it is a bad idea.

It is an international server where most of the players (i cant count more than 10 players from usa) are far away from the server. If you are from USA may be you dont get bumped often, but the rest of the players do it... a lot (and i mean a LOT)

You get bumped, the screen move back where your char actually stayed frozen and you didnt noticed it when you thought you were just running fine, then you cant move for 5 seconds... and get disconnected. -> Bump+DC

I used to get like 1 bump+dc per hour, i saw others players getting bumped+dc often too

Make the char stay few seconds more after the DC, and you will make almost every player with high fps and far from the server to be a free ek. Because when you get a bump+dc usually you die (you notice the bump too late and because of the delay-lag you cant chug) or you DC with few hp, you literally cant resist few seconds more of not chugging

 

Yes, may be pullers will stop but for 10 pullers you will punish over 100 innocent players.

 

 

Disabling the force log out with the same IP or when their hp/sp dicrease, might help a little bit.

20 seconds for force log out, can help.. but still a war (and more when it is amped/pfmed or with a merien shield) can take 20 seconds easily when he chug

 

The only way is to record vids, or to have almost as many fair GMs as players playing lol

 

Well said.

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fyi I'm pretty close to the server (meaning i'm about 500 miles away from it) The amount that i bump is crazy and i bump dc a fair amount as well. As far as i know i've never been accused of pulling, however i've died more from bump dc's than any other way. So the ratio of 10 pullers to 100 innocent people being affected i think is a little bit drastic of a statement. Like i said before, i believe it comes down to common sense and making the penalty so drastic that the idea of pulling isnt worth it. The same has been done with laming eks and i feel that laming isnt a problem at all on nemesis (even tho there is logs for catching ek lamers, i believe it is the penalty that detours most of the community from doing it, not the logs so much). So why cant the same be done for pulling? For those occasions where a GM is actually witnessing a pull, make it very clear and advertised that people who pull will be banned. I think it would only take a few announcements in game, and maybe 1-2 examples to be made for everyone to get the idea and stop pulling.

 

Also being in the usa doesn't give the advantage that everyone assumes it does. I bump soo hard on nemesis in every single fight. And i bump dc more than some people i see from across the world. My internet is fine and i run flawlessly in other american located servers. So when it comes to that i believe people on are on an even playing field. About the only advantage the lower ping gives in nemesis is the cast rate, and even then i see people from Israel/Brazil/Korea casting faster than me. Ping is an excuse for bad players to act like sissies, or people with bad internet/computers to cry about losing in a game they choose to play across the world. Anyway Bumping/DCing is a server wide problem, not just for those outside of the USA.

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