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Helbreath Economy

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Ok I was reading farjat's older topic about creating a stable economy for nemesis, despite the fact that we are on a high exp server, and I thought of some ideas that may help balance the money/trade skills/player level gap. Of course this is just an idea, and might require some ingame depth examination from behalf of the admin staff, but I'm pretty sure this is more or less how we could get working farjat's idea.

 

My suggestion: the exact amount of gold rate should be between x1 and x3. Read the changes I suggest for everything, and, at least in my mind, everything will be set right if everything is applied in game. Please feel free to add or correct anything :)

 

Here are the steps that may help us reach this goal:

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gold for new players

Ok first of all: the first thing that pops in our mind when adressing this problem is, as of course, the amount of gold that is dropped by monsters. Usually the gold has to be at the same % as the exp given, so players can buy items according to their levels. As of course, lowering the gold to its original setup, may be very harmful to new players, who will end up leveling very fast, not earning the proper amount of money to pay for items they need at such levels. Several amounts of drop rate have been set in the past, yet, none have work (right now we are at x5, wich is still pretty high).

 

The problem is, we have always modified the gold rate, but its in at least my opinion, the prices that should be modified. Lets take a look to what items do new players (only new players) actually buy from the blacksmith npc:

 

**(plz note that this are the items a new player to the server will purchase to help him level up, and not items a new character of an older player may purchase)**

 

lvls 20-50:

 

- sabre

- great sword

- flamberge

- plate legginss

- plate mail

- hauberk

- full helm

- scale mail

- chain mail

- rapier/esterk

- wand ms0/ms10/ms20

 

lvls 50-100:

 

- k flamberge

- k great sword

- k plate mail

- k plate leggins

- k hauberk

- k full helm

- w hauberk

- wing helm

 

Ok. As we may all notice, no 180 character (or in some cases, pl raiders with lvl cap of 140) will actually purchase this items. Since 180 chars get a dk set and pl raiders will aim for manu armors, and use weapons such as dk sword or bbh, and stated versions of baxe, bh or gis, this items don't exist in a player's mind (at least after a week of playing on the server). This example also applies for magic spells and cloth related armor sold at shop (robes, mage caps, etc).

 

My suggestion is to lower the cost of these items by half or even reduce them to a 30% of their actual price, and make them more friendly towards new players. This way it doesn't matter if the gold rate is x1 or x2, cause these items that are most needed by new players will be accesible in bulk for the amount of just 2k or 3k, wich is in reallity, not that hard to get. This way, the items purchased by a 140-180 player will still have a relativly high price, while leaving the new players untouched (at least until they pass lvl 100, which by that time, according to my suggestion, they will have a balanced amount of money).

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How to earn money?

 

a)Trade skills

Ok most important thing, is balancing the trade skills to be useful for high level characters. One of the most important things I would change is the formula and the amount of times you need to get 1% of the skill up. I'm not saying it should be a lot easier, but maybe, if it took 5000 times to get to 100% instead of 10000 times, it would certainly make players more interested in leveling these skills.

 

Mining: Ok, a very popular skill, doesn't actually need a change since players usually train this for materials to use in crafting, and well, in manufacturing.

 

Fishing: Fishing will be used, if a lower gold rate is set, and by increasing the amount of money some fish sell for, might make it even more appealing for players (also remember some skills like alchemy do need fish as materials for potions, making it even more usefull if we have lots of alchemists)

 

Farming: Just like fishing, a good easy way to make money if the selling prices are increased, and the materials are also needed for alchemy

 

Manufacturing: Ok here some change is needed, and one of those changes should be informing players of the great weapon advantages manufacturing can offer to them. First thing, manu weapons can be upgraded to +10 (instead of the normal +7). If the % in upgrading is changed for manufactured items, making them easier to upgrade than normal or stated weapons, we should see an increased use of this skill. Also, players should notice that manufacturing already adds a few "plus" to some weapons, like baxe or gis, which come in versions already containing a +2 upgrade. Combined with a bunch of xstones, and a bit of luck, a manu baxe could actually become a baxe+2+10, which would be an incredible nice weapon for pl raiding, and I'm dam sure a baxe+12 will (or at least should) hit more than a bbh+2 or a sharp bh.

 

Alchemy: Now here is a nice skill, with the unfortunate mistake of only having nice items above 50% of the skill. Still, invi pots are always usefull, super pots are amazing, and you always have the nice flavour of potsto change how your character looks like. Still the hardest of alchemy is getting the materials. Since we play on a high exp server, most low lvl pits are barely used (except for scorps), making very hard to get materials such as ant leg or orc meat. Also, many materials that are easy to aquire, like scorp pincer, take 1 space of the bag individually. Making some of this materials stackable would make much easier the material gathering, and, like I suggested above, making the skill a bit easier to train, will make it more appealing for everyone. Also, alchemy opens a gate for skills like fishing and farming.

 

b)Grinding/Hunting

 

Well here is the easiest and most common way of getting money. Killing monsters for their gold (duh!). Most monsters have quite a good avarage for dropping gold. On a wyvern hunt you can get not only gold, but gold pockets (wich are 5k, 10k and 50k worth of gold).

Also, selling useless items to npc (like a strong flam n/s) or good items, that are not hard to get, to another player (like an exp20% flam or pd40 rapier) for gold is a nice way of making money, plus, cleaning the pits filled with trash and reducing lag.

 

c)Quests

 

Quests should have a better reward, in both exp and money. If you think about it, by doing quest, not only you gain contributions, but you also gain the normal exp that you get from monsters, plus a big amount of cash or exp when turning in the complete quest

 

d)Begging

 

Not the best way, and will probably get you on /tooff very quickly, but still some wealthy player might spare you some bucks.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Making players spend their gold

 

The main thing that makes money important in the game, is how much of it is spent. There are a number of ways that may help players constantly spend their money:

 

Increase prices for teleports: The tp to d2, bf and ml, should have higher prices (in the case of bf and ml, at least cost something)

 

Keep pots at higher prices: Potions are the most used item ingame and they should be worth what they cost when a town looses heldian, and for the looser town make them double (winning town: 130g, looser town: 260g)

 

Lucky tickets: Make lucky tickets more appealing. For example, increasing the rate of ancient pieces of stone to be won, or adding a very very very low % of getting a rare item (blood axe, dark executor, df10 neck, poison resistance necklace, etc). Also increasing their price from 50k to 75k (150k for loosing town).

 

Adding costs to the game: There are many ways to do this. For example, when a town looses crusade, the server (meaning the city) will take off 15% of a players gold (both bag and wh). The role-playing excuse for this could be "tax for reconstruction of damaged buildings". This will not only keep the economy stabled, but will also encourage players to play sade more often.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Some notes:

 

- When it comes to weapons, its directly link to the damage they do. A good weapon will be sold or bought often, while useless weapons will not, so when thinking of manufacturing, we should also consider if the damage set for the weapon is ok.

- Many thing can be added or removed to make the economy more stable, this are just some things I came up with

- It should be noted that many of these changes could have a negative impact on other aspects of the game such as hunting or pvp, and will also lower the price of actual items used very often ingame.

- My intention is to keep the game as original as possible, without creating a massive amount of new things. So please if you want to add or correct something, don't add a suggestion like "manufacturing should create xelima weapons".

 

 

I'm making this topic on the general forum, because its an important matter according to the GMs, and something most players would want to have an opinion of it, so since general has the most views, I posted here. If its inapropiate, please move it to suggestion's forum, and accept my apologises :P :P

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the only little problem i see (not a big deal) its that one of the best ways to get gold to new players, is selling itens drops, and if u decrease the price of wands, rapiers, sterks, sabres, the new players will hardly get their main gold source

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i agre with u 102% :P nice idea :) i like Lucky ticket idea and pots price :) thats soud good but it will be little unfair to low lvls players so i sugest (if posible) that duble price for loseing will oblige only 140+ lvl

 

 

 

 

Manufacturing:... Combined with a bunch of xstones, and a BIT OF LUCK, a manu baxe could actually become a baxe+2+10,

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: this FTW :D i give u my acc if u make manu baxe +6 :) (its not shit talk )

 

Scofield

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god who cares we already talked about this forever

 

 

the economy is fine

 

everyone is happy with it stop trying to screw with it

 

and i cant believe you spent all your time writing this post lmao

 

this is a game

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the only little problem i see (not a big deal) its that one of the best ways to get gold to new players, is selling itens drops, and if u decrease the price of wands, rapiers, sterks, sabres, the new players will hardly get their main gold source

 

Yea I forgot to add: different prices and selling rates for normal items and stated items. If not also special set by players would be almost free to repair :blush: , and that wouldn't be good ^_^

 

i agre with u 102% :P nice idea :) i like Lucky ticket idea and pots price :) thats soud good but it will be little unfair to low lvls players so i sugest (if posible) that duble price for loseing will oblige only 140+ lvl

 

 

 

 

Manufacturing:... Combined with a bunch of xstones, and a BIT OF LUCK, a manu baxe could actually become a baxe+2+10,

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: this FTW :D i give u my acc if u make manu baxe +6 :) (its not shit talk )

 

Scofield

 

With a BIT of luck if the upgrading ratio for manufactured items is increased. Right now its pretty imposible :P

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and i'd also like to add, that only players who choose beetween soldier, builder and commander should pay this tax so players who doesnt play for few time dont get out totally poor

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Adding costs to the game: There are many ways to do this. For example, when a town looses crusade, the server (meaning the city) will take off 15% of a players gold (both bag and wh). The role-playing excuse for this could be "tax for reconstruction of damaged buildings". This will not only keep the economy stabled, but will also encourage players to play sade more often.

 

KING.... I LOVE THIS IDEA!!!

 

Not only will it punish the loosing side willing them to try harder next time, or in some cases, try at all. But it acts as TAX which keeps the real economy going working.

 

However there are 3 sades a week so i believe 15% is a bit hefty and one problem i can foresee is that it will be very unfair on players who cant play a crusade. Such as myself, im in a timezone where crusades start at 5:30 am. A lot of the Korean players (who i believe it starts at about 3:30 am) will be in the same situation where they will loose money for a crusade they really cannot contribute to. Although i have been playing extremely late these last few days cause im on holiday.

 

I think what we need to do in short is to somehow TAX the higher level players with the higher amounts of gold whilst helping the new players get their basic items. Kind of like Robin Hood, take from the Rich give to the Poor.

 

Perhaps have gold work with how the exp system works, as you get higher the exp drops, so should the gold rate. However i do think that would very hard to code.

 

FOR EXAMPLE: From levels say 1-140 you get *25 gold, 140-160 you get *15, 160-180 10* and at lvl 180 you get *3 the normal gold rate.

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Hehe I just posted some ways to make it work, maybe the tax at 15% is too big yes, but we can do what mjoker suggested and make it only for those who choose to play sade. The important thing is making ways for people to waste their money :P :P , just like a real goverment, making up silly excuses to steal money from the people ^_^

 

The only real problem would be coding some stuff, cause in reality, lots of things can be done to acomplish a stable market :)

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The only problem is gold has never had any value like even going back to HBINT etc you might be able to buy a zem for lets say 50-100k but gold is never going to get you anything substantial, establishing a different economy at this stage in the server where an economy is already in place, people have a sense of item worth, changing the economy now would upset a lot of things.

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The only problem is gold has never had any value like even going back to HBINT etc you might be able to buy a zem for lets say 50-100k but gold is never going to get you anything substantial, establishing a different economy at this stage in the server where an economy is already in place, people have a sense of item worth, changing the economy now would upset a lot of things.

 

Yes thats true, I just posted because admins were looking for a way around it.

 

And having gold have some value would be for buying small things, like zems or ancient pieces, low % armor (like hp7 leather) or easy to find weapons (short sword, esterks, etc).

 

Items like zwand, sb, xb, mp49 chain, mr70 hoses, etc will always be traded....

 

Even if it was me the one who did the post, I don't think changing the economy would be nice (read the notes on the last part of the topic), still if admins wanted to do it, this would be a balanced way (at least in my opinion).

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I think there definallty needs to be a tax. The method used in real life is to limit the amount of money in circulation, but its not like you can just have monsters stop dropping gold. I think the solution is definallty a tax of some sort and the idea you put up about the crusade tax is definallty an idea that fits within the helbreath story line. It also uses the crusade, as we know now crusades are an excuse to ek, if people were worried about loosing 10-15% of their bank account perhaps it may change.

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I think there definallty needs to be a tax. The method used in real life is to limit the amount of money in circulation, but its not like you can just have monsters stop dropping gold. I think the solution is definallty a tax of some sort and the idea you put up about the crusade tax is definallty an idea that fits within the helbreath story line. It also uses the crusade, as we know now crusades are an excuse to ek, if people were worried about loosing 10-15% of their bank account perhaps it may change.

if u loose sade ek-20 for all loosers :D

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This measures that you guys are suggesting could make the game more "real", and it could work. But in the other side they modify the original bases of HB "too much"..dunno if you got me.. my translations are pathetics..

 

just one more opinion sin animo de ofender a nadie..

 

 

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Ok I was reading farjat's older topic about creating a stable economy for nemesis, despite the fact that we are on a high exp server, and I thought of some ideas that may help balance the money/trade skills/player level gap. Of course this is just an idea, and might require some ingame depth examination from behalf of the admin staff, but I'm pretty sure this is more or less how we could get working farjat's idea.

 

My suggestion: the exact amount of gold rate should be between x1 and x3. Read the changes I suggest for everything, and, at least in my mind, everything will be set right if everything is applied in game. Please feel free to add or correct anything :)

 

Here are the steps that may help us reach this goal:

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gold for new players

Ok first of all: the first thing that pops in our mind when adressing this problem is, as of course, the amount of gold that is dropped by monsters. Usually the gold has to be at the same % as the exp given, so players can buy items according to their levels. As of course, lowering the gold to its original setup, may be very harmful to new players, who will end up leveling very fast, not earning the proper amount of money to pay for items they need at such levels. Several amounts of drop rate have been set in the past, yet, none have work (right now we are at x5, wich is still pretty high).

 

The problem is, we have always modified the gold rate, but its in at least my opinion, the prices that should be modified. Lets take a look to what items do new players (only new players) actually buy from the blacksmith npc:

 

**(plz note that this are the items a new player to the server will purchase to help him level up, and not items a new character of an older player may purchase)**

 

lvls 20-50:

 

- sabre

- great sword

- flamberge

- plate legginss

- plate mail

- hauberk

- full helm

- scale mail

- chain mail

- rapier/esterk

- wand ms0/ms10/ms20

 

lvls 50-100:

 

- k flamberge

- k great sword

- k plate mail

- k plate leggins

- k hauberk

- k full helm

- w hauberk

- wing helm

 

Ok. As we may all notice, no 180 character (or in some cases, pl raiders with lvl cap of 140) will actually purchase this items. Since 180 chars get a dk set and pl raiders will aim for manu armors, and use weapons such as dk sword or bbh, and stated versions of baxe, bh or gis, this items don't exist in a player's mind (at least after a week of playing on the server). This example also applies for magic spells and cloth related armor sold at shop (robes, mage caps, etc).

 

My suggestion is to lower the cost of these items by half or even reduce them to a 30% of their actual price, and make them more friendly towards new players. This way it doesn't matter if the gold rate is x1 or x2, cause these items that are most needed by new players will be accesible in bulk for the amount of just 2k or 3k, wich is in reallity, not that hard to get. This way, the items purchased by a 140-180 player will still have a relativly high price, while leaving the new players untouched (at least until they pass lvl 100, which by that time, according to my suggestion, they will have a balanced amount of money).

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How to earn money?

 

a)Trade skills

Ok most important thing, is balancing the trade skills to be useful for high level characters. One of the most important things I would change is the formula and the amount of times you need to get 1% of the skill up. I'm not saying it should be a lot easier, but maybe, if it took 5000 times to get to 100% instead of 10000 times, it would certainly make players more interested in leveling these skills.

 

Mining: Ok, a very popular skill, doesn't actually need a change since players usually train this for materials to use in crafting, and well, in manufacturing.

 

Fishing: Fishing will be used, if a lower gold rate is set, and by increasing the amount of money some fish sell for, might make it even more appealing for players (also remember some skills like alchemy do need fish as materials for potions, making it even more usefull if we have lots of alchemists)

 

Farming: Just like fishing, a good easy way to make money if the selling prices are increased, and the materials are also needed for alchemy

 

Manufacturing: Ok here some change is needed, and one of those changes should be informing players of the great weapon advantages manufacturing can offer to them. First thing, manu weapons can be upgraded to +10 (instead of the normal +7). If the % in upgrading is changed for manufactured items, making them easier to upgrade than normal or stated weapons, we should see an increased use of this skill. Also, players should notice that manufacturing already adds a few "plus" to some weapons, like baxe or gis, which come in versions already containing a +2 upgrade. Combined with a bunch of xstones, and a bit of luck, a manu baxe could actually become a baxe+2+10, which would be an incredible nice weapon for pl raiding, and I'm dam sure a baxe+12 will (or at least should) hit more than a bbh+2 or a sharp bh.

 

Alchemy: Now here is a nice skill, with the unfortunate mistake of only having nice items above 50% of the skill. Still, invi pots are always usefull, super pots are amazing, and you always have the nice flavour of potsto change how your character looks like. Still the hardest of alchemy is getting the materials. Since we play on a high exp server, most low lvl pits are barely used (except for scorps), making very hard to get materials such as ant leg or orc meat. Also, many materials that are easy to aquire, like scorp pincer, take 1 space of the bag individually. Making some of this materials stackable would make much easier the material gathering, and, like I suggested above, making the skill a bit easier to train, will make it more appealing for everyone. Also, alchemy opens a gate for skills like fishing and farming.

 

b)Grinding/Hunting

 

Well here is the easiest and most common way of getting money. Killing monsters for their gold (duh!). Most monsters have quite a good avarage for dropping gold. On a wyvern hunt you can get not only gold, but gold pockets (wich are 5k, 10k and 50k worth of gold).

Also, selling useless items to npc (like a strong flam n/s) or good items, that are not hard to get, to another player (like an exp20% flam or pd40 rapier) for gold is a nice way of making money, plus, cleaning the pits filled with trash and reducing lag.

 

c)Quests

 

Quests should have a better reward, in both exp and money. If you think about it, by doing quest, not only you gain contributions, but you also gain the normal exp that you get from monsters, plus a big amount of cash or exp when turning in the complete quest

 

d)Begging

 

Not the best way, and will probably get you on /tooff very quickly, but still some wealthy player might spare you some bucks.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Making players spend their gold

 

The main thing that makes money important in the game, is how much of it is spent. There are a number of ways that may help players constantly spend their money:

 

Increase prices for teleports: The tp to d2, bf and ml, should have higher prices (in the case of bf and ml, at least cost something)

 

Keep pots at higher prices: Potions are the most used item ingame and they should be worth what they cost when a town looses heldian, and for the looser town make them double (winning town: 130g, looser town: 260g)

 

Lucky tickets: Make lucky tickets more appealing. For example, increasing the rate of ancient pieces of stone to be won, or adding a very very very low % of getting a rare item (blood axe, dark executor, df10 neck, poison resistance necklace, etc). Also increasing their price from 50k to 75k (150k for loosing town).

 

Adding costs to the game: There are many ways to do this. For example, when a town looses crusade, the server (meaning the city) will take off 15% of a players gold (both bag and wh). The role-playing excuse for this could be "tax for reconstruction of damaged buildings". This will not only keep the economy stabled, but will also encourage players to play sade more often.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Some notes:

 

- When it comes to weapons, its directly link to the damage they do. A good weapon will be sold or bought often, while useless weapons will not, so when thinking of manufacturing, we should also consider if the damage set for the weapon is ok.

- Many thing can be added or removed to make the economy more stable, this are just some things I came up with

- It should be noted that many of these changes could have a negative impact on other aspects of the game such as hunting or pvp, and will also lower the price of actual items used very often ingame.

- My intention is to keep the game as original as possible, without creating a massive amount of new things. So please if you want to add or correct something, don't add a suggestion like "manufacturing should create xelima weapons".

 

 

I'm making this topic on the general forum, because its an important matter according to the GMs, and something most players would want to have an opinion of it, so since general has the most views, I posted here. If its inapropiate, please move it to suggestion's forum, and accept my apologises :P :P

agreed!!! i have new friends trying to play, but gold is their main problem

i cant spare them some because im poor :D

 

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This measures that you guys are suggesting could make the game more "real", and it could work. But in the other side they modify the original bases of HB "too much"..dunno if you got me.. my translations are pathetics..

 

just one more opinion sin animo de ofender a nadie..

 

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This idea is just annoying and will not work. However, it could work if one was able to buy, eg., a devastator from shop for a precise price. In addition, tbh, suggesting lucky tickets 150k for the losing town.....

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Elephant maybe instead of buying an item from shop ..you could rent it out for 48 hours..or something, for a fixed price and the better the item the way more gold needed for renting.

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