Helbreath Nemesis Economy Ministry.

[jin 0]

i think increasing they price by 25x will only discourege new players from coming to the server.

and droping the the droprate of gold way down will do the same, because you lvl so quickly you

need to buy gear and spells much faster and it is tough in the begining buy by 120 gold no longer is

a problem.

 

i like the idea of increaseing the repairs cost, because noob items dont have alot of end. and wont cost

as much to repair as the higher lvl items do.

 

i also like the idea to increase the price of some items, my thoughts would be

 

large pots increase

bbh, bh, Gis, Baxe increase

all manuals

 

 

next increase the zem drop rate from other monsters im now 180 w/ dk+6 and still have not seen a single

zem drop.

 

just my opinions.

 

money is useless mopst ppl got the money from /dkset and sell

so money should be wiped totally nothing else

then make money drop rate 1x

so u dont need to have 2mil in bag just for repottin

i like the prices 200k zem 100k merien xelima

and this is just possible with low gold drops

 

[Fidim 0]

I agree with increasing zem drop rate. And if you raise shop prices, everyone will make a 200 chr char and buy them cheaper, i dont think that's the solution.

 

Other servers make balls drop and those balls are traded for items. Thats other solution but would make hb nemesis non standard.

 

Everything related to "wipe" or "reset" will make people angry and ask for a retribution.

 

Increase stones drop rate and gold value will go even lower, but what about taking gold out of the equation? Things will start being traded for zems.

[timma 0]

Gold amount dropped by monsters is decreased after next server reboot.

Zem droprate has been slightly raised after next server reboot.

 

 

thank for increasing zem rate, maybe by the time i get to Dk+15 ill get one from a monster and not

a ares. :P

[-AkoN- 0]

when is next server reboot :P?

[Zariel 0]

why not trade in gold ..like ppl who have alot of gold in wh etc.. maybe for every 1 million gold u get 300 K in the new money economy.

 

so for 500 K gold u get 150 K in the new currency. something like this..

 

and just lower gold, so more useful.

[Blacky 0]

Are you on crack zariel?

[LunarFault 0]

In MMOs you have an exponentially inflating economy. The more people kill monsters the more money that drops into the economy, providing they pick it up. It's like what would happen in real life if the banks went crazy and just started printing money for everything instead of just loans. Yes when you go to the bank and take out a loan they just add the amount of the loan to your account. That is effectively printing money because the money does not physically exist until you withdraw. Banks have the authority to do this because debt keeps it in check. Money = debt .

 

You need to look at this from a view point of how much should the normal person make as they level up to what they will need to spend to accomplish that. Now to keep the system in check you have all these shops and people have to buy their stuff from these shops and use these shops.

 

Now in order to fix an economy in a game that has gone wild you need to approach it in layers. First the money entering the economy must be a lot less than the money leaving the economy. You need to look at what do people spend their money on. It's potions and repair bills. But nobody is going to repair at x25 the price if they can just buy the weapon cheaper. You have to hit the consumables first.

 

Change gold rate to x1. All scrolls and potions immediately must be x5 the price. Get the money out faster than it's coming in without making a huge panic on the guys just starting. Leave the price of equipment the same. Leave the cost of spells the same. You do not want to make this harder than you have to by bringing the entire system inline to a x25 gold drop rate. Just bring gold to x1 and start taking the money out.

 

Add something in the programing to make drops disappear after 2 minutes. That's more than enough time to pick up your shit. It will also fix server lag. Items on ground = memory used on server. Less memory = more lag and less fun for the players.

 

Players who have stockpiled all this gold can turn that gold in for a lottery ticket. The lottery ticket gives you a chance at half the pot 1 lottery ticket is 1 million gold. It could work like a real life lottery. Have it be four numbers the players pick. At the end of every week the GMs will announce the winning lottery number. The player who wins gets half of what is in the pot. The other half gets destroyed. You do not want to lottery off rare items because this creates a further imbalance in the value of items. If nobody wins the lottery the pot continues on to the next week. Just like a real life power ball.

 

Ideally what should be happening is if you pick up everything a monsters drops for you and sell it off you should have just slightly more than what it costs you in pots, repairs, and buying new equipment. You have to gear the game toward farming. If you want to buy something fancy with gold the player must devote a ton of time to farming for money. This keeps the game in balance.

 

 

I started out a character today and went from 1 to 115 in like 4-5 hours of just casual grinding. I picked up all my gold drops and made way to much money for what it cost me. I used 20-30 hp pots every hour once I was 85+. The pots should of drained me of my money but they didn't. I have 57,425 gold left after repairs, pots, equipment and I got 50k for selling a rep. So that means I had 7,425 gold left from drops, which isn't that bad but I dropped equipment every time I died so it got expensive. Which means the game needs more economy sinks to slow the player down. This will hurt new players but hurting the new players is something that can not be avoided, if the economy is to be truly balanced. The old people already have their levels and that is not going to change without a whipe, which is off the table.

 

Items really don't cost that much to begin with so I will reiterate again do not touch the price of items unless the gold players are earning dwarf what they have to spend on equipment appropriate to their level. Be patient and gradually experiment.

 

Now to get complicated and to check the system. Create a log parse to go through each days log and see how much gold entered the economy not what was picked up but what entered. Compare that to how much gold the shops brought in. Is the gold more? If so make lower the gold drop rate. Now look at how much gold players have in their warehouse and in their bags. Use good sound judgment on if the average player has to much money. Also look at how much gold people got from selling their loot the shops. You need sound judgment on if the difference is extreme. There will always be rich players and poor players the goal is to lessen the gap.

 

Also look for players who are rapidly stock piling huge amounts of money. These players will be a threat to the economy if they rapidly introduce it. You must target these players individually and fairly get their money off their hands without it going into the economy.

 

LunarFault

Former Lead Admin - HBN

[Trader 0]

give him a beer, nice speech

[MagicJoKer 0]

 

Also look for players who are rapidly stock piling huge amounts of money. These players will be a threat to the economy if they rapidly introduce it. You must target these players individually and fairly get their money off their hands without it going into the economy.

 

 

what u mean with this?

 

 

i didnt understand half of what u said but i believe the 2 min thing is bad, sumtimes i tranfers things droping in hidden spot and loging the other char, what about my net goes off for 1-5 minutes? i guess i wont get items back

[LunarFault 0]

 

Also look for players who are rapidly stock piling huge amounts of money. These players will be a threat to the economy if they rapidly introduce it. You must target these players individually and fairly get their money off their hands without it going into the economy.

 

 

what u mean with this?

 

When a large amount of money is introduced into the flowing economy it causes inflation. In a lot of games there are Real Money Transfer (RMT) companies who sell items and money in game for real life money. What these companies do is save up a lot of money and sell it off. What happens as a result since the amount is so large it causes prices to rise. Which further pushes people to use these companies for money to maintain their buying power. In a stable game economy there will be a series of inflations and deflations. This is natural look at it as breathing. Your lungs expand when you breathe in air and deflate when you breathe out. Look at money as air and your lungs as the price. In an unstable economy you have only an ever increasing amount of inflation (breathing in air thus your lungs expand). Prices just continually rise up to the point that the currency crashes (your lungs just exploded). When the currency crashes the money is now worthless and people resort to using what doesn't crash so easily, item trading i.e. bartering. This has happened in most mmo's with heavy amounts of RMT, to name a quick recent few Rappelz, Rising Force Online, Two Moons, and 9dragons.

 

 

i didnt understand half of what u said but i believe the 2 min thing is bad, sumtimes i tranfers things droping in hidden spot and loging the other char, what about my net goes off for 1-5 minutes? i guess i wont get items back

 

No you wouldn't get the items back and nor should you. You are taking a gamble when you do this. People can come up and pick up your items and this has happened to folks a lot. It has happened when I was an Admin, here, and we did not return their items. It's tough luck. You took the risk of your own free will. You dropped the item on the ground. You are responsible for your actions that caused you to loose the item.

[~farjat 0]

Gold drop reduced 25 times so we are back to helbreath original amount of gold...

Prices will not change...banks will not be touched...

Ill figure something to help noobs...

ALso DK sets price for repair/sells are 1 gold until we fix the /dkset for only 1 time take..

[Lorth-Shag- 0]

i guess the ppl who deleted their miners are screwed one their gold dies out...im one of them :D

[LunarFault 0]

Gold drop reduced 25 times so we are back to helbreath original amount of gold...

Prices will not change...banks will not be touched...

Ill figure something to help noobs...

ALso DK sets price for repair/sells are 1 gold until we fix the /dkset for only 1 time take..

 

Good start now your task should be to reduce the amount of money in circulation. That is the only way you are going to bring the economy back to being stable. Leaving that much money circulating in the economy negates any kind of relief from the change back to x1 Gold. Money expenditures must rise else the economic situation stays the same. A quick fix would be to cut all gold by 1/25th of what is out there. If somebody has 100k in his warehouse he now has 4k. I am sure something can be done in SQL to reduce all gold to 1/25th of what the value currently is in the warehouse and bags of each character. This kind of relief must be done quickly else you hurt the new players.

[MagicJoKer 0]

i guess the ppl who deleted their miners are screwed one their gold dies out...im one of them :D

well if u didtht u aint much smart, since miners are useful for crafting

 

Gold drop reduced 25 times so we are back to helbreath original amount of gold...

Prices will not change...banks will not be touched...

Ill figure something to help noobs...

ALso DK sets price for repair/sells are 1 gold until we fix the /dkset for only 1 time take..

 

Good start now your task should be to reduce the amount of money in circulation. That is the only way you are going to bring the economy back to being stable. Leaving that much money circulating in the economy negates any kind of relief from the change back to x1 Gold. Money expenditures must rise else the economic situation stays the same. A quick fix would be to cut all gold by 1/25th of what is out there. If somebody has 100k in his warehouse he now has 4k. I am sure something can be done in SQL to reduce all gold to 1/25th of what the value currently is in the warehouse and bags of each character. This kind of relief must be done quickly else you hurt the new players.

i believe the gold amount will get donw naturally with time, principally with helds, they kill!

 

and when i asked what u meant, i meant what u wanted to say when u said it was needed to keep a eye for ppl stockpiling gold

srry if my english is too confusing, couldnt find better way to tell what i was thinking

[LunarFault 0]

i believe the gold amount will get donw naturally with time, principally with helds, they kill!

 

and when i asked what u meant, i meant what u wanted to say when u said it was needed to keep a eye for ppl stockpiling gold

srry if my english is too confusing, couldnt find better way to tell what i was thinking

 

Simply stock piling large amounts of gold so their buying power is a lot larger than what it would be with a 1/25 economy. If they are patient and save it and start using their gold reserve, once the economy begins to breathe again, they will cause an inflation. Works the same as when RMT companies introduce their gold, into the flowing economy. The players buy huge amounts of gold and spend it. That causes prices to rise and the value of gold to drop. Which is why I said to keep an eye out for players creating stock piles. There already is stock piles of it right now and that is a future economic threat. Events such as Helds will help but that takes time. During this time players without a gold reserve are going to suffer. What you end up doing by reducing the amount of gold entering the economy and not also simultaneously combating the gold in the economy is widen the gulf between rich and poor.

[MagicJoKer 0]

well i already got about 80% of what u said and thats more than enought for me =)

do u make/made economy courses?

[EzekieL 0]

nooooooooooooooooo put the gold back!!!!

[LunarFault 0]

well i already got about 80% of what u said and thats more than enought for me =)

do u make/made economy courses?

 

No. I have played a lot of games and economy has always been something important to me. In my second MMO, EQ, I was an item farmer and I sold my items in game for in game money, which I then sold on auction sites for real life money. Doing this required me to not just learn how virtual economy works but to have such a deep understanding of it that I could then exploit it for real life profit. Personally I am completely fascinated with how money works in both the real and virtual world. I love money! I learned everything I know from focusing my interactions, in MMOs, on the economy, and studying economy, in the real world, to increase my power to interact with it in virtual worlds.

[Stang 0]

If u decrease gold noobs will be only one afected

[~farjat 0]

There will be some price changes to help noobs..

Like all magics up to circle 6 costs 1 gold or something..

Same also until a line of weapons..

[EzekieL 0]

so people who arent 180 will get drained of all their money with repairing armors

 

while dk sets dont cost anything to repair?

[LunarFault 0]

There will be some price changes to help noobs..

Like all magics up to circle 6 costs 1 gold or something..

Same also until a line of weapons..

 

That doesn't fix the problem. It is essentially ignoring the problem and giving band-aids to low level players in areas they aren't hurt. Prices of items is not a problem. Money earned at x1 gold rate comparable to prices at x1 shop price rate are appropriately proportionated.

 

The common sense rule of life is if something is not broke don't fix it. We all agree that the economy is broke so the thing to do is to address economic issues. Gold rate flowing in has now been fixed to what the prices are in shops. That means you don't fix the prices of shops because it is no longer broken comparable to the gold coming into the market. What is broken is the amount of money currently circulating in the economy. The gold currently flowing in the market is what affects the value of that gold in player to player exchanges. To prudently correct that issue you will have to attack it. Anything other than that is not knowing what you are doing and just doing random things, hoping it works against firm and sound economic realities and that it will fix it.

[King!! 0]

There will be some price changes to help noobs..

Like all magics up to circle 6 costs 1 gold or something..

Same also until a line of weapons..

 

yep farjat I don't really think thats a solution, it just makes things more confusing...

 

Maybe we could try a different approach, but in the end, gold is never gona be worth much on a high exp server. This will only make people start either fishing, minging, etc, and in the end they will all have lots and lots of gold...and we ll be back at the begining.

 

Besides, rich players are going to give money to starter players that join their guild, so the only solution u need to counter poverty is to join a guild.

[LunarFault 0]

Maybe we could try a different approach, but in the end, gold is never gona be worth much on a high exp server. This will only make people start either fishing, minging, etc, and in the end they will all have lots and lots of gold...and we ll be back at the begining.

 

Besides, rich players are going to give money to starter players that join their guild, so the only solution u need to counter poverty is to join a guild.

 

That is not necessarily true. The value of gold is controlled by the amount currently circulating in the economy versus the rate of gold leaving the economy. More gold coming in less gold going out creates a surplus of gold and thus the value of gold comparatively to items is nil.

 

The only solution for an economy that has busted is in this list. By solution I mean "solution" something that solves the problem completely. Anything else done to the economy just adds more economic problems.

 

1) Reduce the amount of gold coming into existence. - Check done

2) Make shop prices appropriately comparable to what is coming in. - Was put in check since gold rate is same as shop rate.

3) Drastically reduce the amount of money currently in existence.

4) Insure the amount of money exiting the economy is appropriate to the amount of money entering the economy.

 

When those four things are done the economy will have a period of stabling out. This means that as players discover they need gold to do things they will start fishing, mining etc. That intake of gold will go to luxury shops. By luxury shops you have buying stuff for Helds. Anything you don't need but would like to use and have is a luxury. You don't need fancy equipment but they sure are nice to have.

 

So what you do right now is trade your extra fancy equipment for what you want to have, with another player who needs yours but not his. If the need for gold for luxury shops rises you will have an increased demand for gold. As players want to use these luxury shops they will start trading their stated equipment, they can't use, for gold. That is how a breathing economy should work. Items for gold which gives shop purchasing power or different item purchasing power.

 

The money exiting the economy can be achieved through events that encourage people to spend gold, i.e. Helds. Raising the prices of potions does this too but it does hurt new players a little bit. Making the system require you to have a miner or a fisher to use luxury shops is good. It is a luxury and a miner/fisher is for luxury which that gold exits the economy if there is a low supply of gold for luxuries. If you need a miner/fisher for everyday game play, i.e. equipment repairs and pots then there is a slight problem with the prices of those necessities. Blacksmith and Shop merchants sell necessary goods, players and any kind of other shop sells luxury goods. Very important to keep that in your head. Don't see items that are a boon but not a need as a necessity. You need food, clothes, shelter. You don't need an Aston Martin.

[EzekieL 0]

helbreath nemesis economy = ITENZ

 

not gold =(